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Does anyone know why all these boat trips did they all work at sea or ?

Ive just contacted what would be Clodaghs full sibling (Coonah) see if shes happy for me to proceed with death cert and the probate

the probate will give you the name of the person who handled the estate, who was responsible for transferring the money or property to her heirs

probate should mean there was a will (it would be administration if there was no will, I believe)

I have not delved into probate much so I don't know whether the actual will would be attached

her death wasn't so long ago, so the informant or executor would very likely still be findable

you do have the right approach - do what you can to eliminate this possibility, if possible, and then move on :-)


a bit more info about Eileen

1911 census in Dublin, the family were Church of Ireland

Milne John 44 Male Head of Family, traveller in woolens
Milne May 38 Female Wife
Milne Eileen 10 Female Daughter
Milne Norah 4 months Female Daughter

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB5F-52G

Name Norah Mary Milne
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1910
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1910
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 549

possible marriage for Norah but young

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYVF-S4C

Name Norah May Milne
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1937
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1937
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 321

there were nearly 4500 marriages in Dublin South in 1937, so say a good 500 grooms in the Jan-Mar quarter, so I'm not going to go through them looking for the matching groom in volume 2 on page 321 :-)


this seems to be a current sale listing for Clodagh's house (although more recently renovated and extended) and I think it's a case of if you have to ask, you can't afford it :-)

http://media1.fineandcountry.com/v3/clients/224/properties/50017677/MED_50017677_50028787.pdf

so I would imagine she had a fairly substantial estate

The boat trips, Frederick was a civil servant 'on Her Majesty's service' in what were then African colonies


oops I missed that Rose posted the house while I was digging around in bmds :-)

Ok i dont understand what that means for his job so Clodagh would travel with him and so would Eileen ?as some trips Clodagh was in her twenties

Joonie so let me get my head around this theres a missing boat trip isnt there? Is there any way i can find her getting to england from ireland or somewhere else between the husband leaving after marriage and when we find Clodagh on the boat trip it 1931. In africa do they not have birth records as us? surely there has to be something?

There are some records for Civil service examinations ( if he took them ) mentioned here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/civil-or-crown-servants/

but there may be no records to say what sort of work Frederick did, basically he would have worked for the British government in some capacity, possibly in an embassy of sorts or local government offices maybe, in Africa. As such his family would be able to accompany him back and forth to postings.

Ah ok il look i dont understand it all i know that they changed her name to Clodagh i know they was an irish couple and i know they was wealthy but nothing more was ever passed on and no contact any further was ever given and my family have searched for her for years. This is the only possibility that has come of light. If she was born in africa would of death certificate display she was an African cit or anything?

one of the later passenger records has him being a judge

ArgyllGran posted the explanation of his position

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puisne_judge

(it's pronounced "puny" judge :-) )

basically he would have been an ordinary judge - on a court of the colony he was in I would presume, doubtful he would have been taking up a position as a judge in England

that was the 1953 trip back to England which seems to have been their permanent return

civil servants in the colonies received home leave from time to time, which is why you see the multiple voyages

a judge on the ship or in another country ?

The death cert will only show what the informant knew to be true or assumed, if it was a relative or someone who knew her history they might have given place of birth...but if they didn't know I would assume it was left blank.

I think I would order the death cert myself, to see if the informant was a relative?

There's a copy of one here so you can see what is likely to be on a cert ( EDIT changed the link to a copy cert)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/16/1366125787518/Margaret-Thatchers-death--001.jpg

Alexandra ... ships do not have judges

the occupations listed on passenger records are people's ordinary occupations at the time

Mr Johnston didn't work on a ship ... he worked for the British government overseas, in an embassy or consulate most likely, eventually being appointed a judge, remember this was when the colonies like Kenya did not have self-government, the appointed British governors and civil servants ran the governments there

it is possible that the last record meant he was going to be a judge in England, but it looks like he was of retirement age, so he had been a judge in the colony and was retiring back home to Cheshire

Clodagh was an unmarried daughter of a well-to-do foreign service officer, so yes, she travelled back and forth with them

Tuts at self for not looking!

1981 Frederick William Johnston probate
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=johnston&yearOfDeath=1981&page=3#calendar

Same address as Clodagh.

Probate for Eileen same address ( they seem to have called the house 'Lagos' )

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=johnston&yearOfDeath=1990&page=2#calendar

What a pity this didn't come up last week before I went to Chester, I might have had a look in the newpaper archives at the records office.

Ah ok so they each have a probate.... Clodagh living with parents all her life is that not odd. Going to order the death certificate tonight

I don't think it's particularly odd, single women often stayed living at home to look after an elderly or ill parent. She may not have lived with them all her life though, she could just have moved back home after having a career herself. her death cert may give a former occupation which might be useful to know.

here is Eileen's sister Norah's *possible* husband - there is no other Norah Milne birth 1900-1910, or in the 1911 Irish census)

and my arithmetic was stupid - she was 27 in 1937, not 17 as I was thinking

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Marriage
> Event Date Jan - Mar 1937
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1937
Registration District Dublin South
> Volume Number 2
> Page Number 321

I found him by finding births with mother Milne in Dublin South after 1937, and looking for grooms with the surnames of the birth who married in Dublin South in Jan-March 1937, until I found on in volume 2 on page 321

... and now I google his name and find that Ancestry has Ireland marriage registrations which I did not know

Name: Samuel Harold Boyce
Date of Registration: 1937 - Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Dublin South, Ireland
Volume: 2
Page number: 321
FHL Film Number: 101577
Household Members
Name
> Samuel Harold Boyce
> Norah May Milne

they had children in 1938 and 1941 (mother's name Milne) and possibly 1944


okay that seems to be Norah, husband was same age

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB5C-H4D

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Birth
> Event Date Jul - Sep 1910
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1910
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 590

and he died in England

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCT-1Y15

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1974
Event Place Maidstone, Kent, England
Birth Date 27 Jun 1910

(and remember that trick, where freebmd doesn't cover, use familysearch)

but I see no death record for Norah

So its possible to do a point of contact through Norah and the children? is that worth while?

Also looking at the probates seen the address Clodaghs doesnt show like this i have to pay the 10.00 first but Eileens and Fredericks what does the numbers mean at the end have you any idea ?