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Hi Joonie i didnt get a notification of this I know the maiden name of Coonahs fathers first wife as i descend from the line of Spinks which was her father. He was just unnamed on her birth due to being already married and not to the mother Gwen. My connection is not the female line but the spinks male line who is my GGF. Coonah is or would of been my Great Aunt.

I still think the Clodagh find is the most probable. At the end of your message you talk about the birth of Clodagh Johnston does this mean it appears as though her birth was not at all registered even if born in Africa.

I just think with all the boat trips surely there would be one with Eileen going alone and returning with a baby but theres not? Is there nothing no records of just Ireland to UK? This would solve all because the family came from Ireland to london whether they stayed some weeks before returning i dont know

x

actually that sequence does work,

Coonah Young married Campbell in 1929, Jul-Sep quarter

Coonah Nunn was born in 1930, Apr-Jun quarter

it's possible that Gwendoline was pregnant with Coonah even before the Coonah-Campbell marriage (she would have been pregnant by mid-Aug for a birth in mid-May)

but it would be pretty odd for her to name her child after the wife of her child's father :-)

how is it that you know the maiden name of the wife of Coonah's father? little tidbits you seem to know that we don't know :-)


just to correct the record, I messed up on page 1 when I said these were Coonah Young's parents - in fact this seems likely to be Coonah Young's first marriage:

Name James Archibald Young
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 14 Jul 1919
Event Place Pinetown, Natal, South Africa
Age 21
Birth Year (Estimated) 1898
Spouse's Name Coonah Mcevoy
Spouse's Age 23
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1896

yes indeed, she divorced him 2 years later (this is from South African archives)

DESCRIPTION ILLIQUID CASE. DIVORCE.
COONAH YOUNG (BORN MCEVOY) VERSUS JAMES ARCHIBALD YOUNG.
STARTING 19210000
ENDING 19210000
REMARKS I120/1921.

James Young appears to have died in Natal in 1969 (record says divorced, deceased)
there are two more divorces for the name James Archibald Young, 1955 and 1958 !

Coonah McEvoy Young Campbell had arrived travelled as Edith Coonah McEvoy from London to South Africa to 1906 (with mother and two siblings), and then travelled to England as Coonah Edith Campbell in 1929, before departing for Bombay later in 1929 after her marriage

Name: Coonah Edith McEvoy
Birth Date: abt 1899
Age: 30
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 22 Apr 1929
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England

occupation hospital nurse, address in Rugby, country of last residence South Africa

and then she returned in 1953 ... no wait, Coonah Campbell, nursing sister, destined to London, arrived in 1953 but she was 22 years old ... a daughter? travelled from London (Round Africa) to London ... don't know what that means

Name: Coonah Campbell
Birth Date: abt 1931
Age: 22
Port of Departure: London, England
Arrival Date: 24 Jun 1953
Port of Arrival: London, England

well there's another thought altogether ... completely setting aside the Clodagh theory ...

was our Coonah the daughter of John J B Campbell who married Coonah McEvoy Young, and the couple took her? ... the ages match almost ... our Coonah would have been 23 in June 1953, but maybe the age was recorded earlier ...

it could explain the lack of an adoption if she was simply his daughter



enough wild theories for the moment - I can't get any farther with any of them!


there is one other Coonah to mention, born about 1916 don't know where, left England 1934 for Bombay ... and seems to have married in England under 3 different surnames in 1947! - Conah seems to be a variation of Coonah



btw, I forget whether I said - the Consular Births (British Nationals Born Overseas) index, at findmypast, shows no Johnston birth that could conceivably be Clodagh.

With Frederick Johnston being a civil servant, I think he would have registered the birth of his daughter if she was born while he was on a posting abroad.

ahhh i realise the marriage is before the birth so this is defo not an avenue to proceed with derrrr must be getting tired

Ok Rose thank you im going to get the death cert first i think then the will. Also Joonie on page one you found a marriage for a Coonah E Young Random thing is with the history of this is the reason Coonah / clodagh was adopted out is because Gwen had him with a married man and the first wife's maiden name was young and i think Gwens mother was a E Nunn random may all be totally irrelevant

You won't be able to access the will as soon as you've paid, it takes up to 10 days

"How to get your copy grant and/or will.
You won’t be able to access the grant/will straight after ordering it. You will get an email confirming your order but this will not mean that your copy is ready to be downloaded.

You will get an email when it is ready to download, and this should happen within 10 working days. You will then be able to log in to the system and go to “My Wills” and save each available item to your computer. After you have logged in, the copy will be available for 31 days, so make sure that you save it before then".

Thats the death all ordered the longest 4-5 days will now be here.

Hopefully it will uncover something

OK, Going to order her death now if i pay the probate and will would that be sent to be or instantly viewable online?

Alexandra I think all you can do is get Clodagh's probate and see what it says

her heirs may very well have been her cousins, Eileen sister Norah's children

Probably not much point getting the probates for Clodagh's parents', as they likely left everything to her when the second one died

As for Norah, I was hoping to be able to trace her children maybe but so far no luck, no marriages or deaths in England

both were daughters so their surnames would likely be different now unless they were like Clodagh

Clodagh's probate doesn't show the address because it is more recent, if you notice at the top of that page there are different year ranges) the numbers are just the probate number.

Also looking at the probates seen the address Clodaghs doesnt show like this i have to pay the 10.00 first but Eileens and Fredericks what does the numbers mean at the end have you any idea ?

So its possible to do a point of contact through Norah and the children? is that worth while?

here is Eileen's sister Norah's *possible* husband - there is no other Norah Milne birth 1900-1910, or in the 1911 Irish census)

and my arithmetic was stupid - she was 27 in 1937, not 17 as I was thinking

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Marriage
> Event Date Jan - Mar 1937
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1937
Registration District Dublin South
> Volume Number 2
> Page Number 321

I found him by finding births with mother Milne in Dublin South after 1937, and looking for grooms with the surnames of the birth who married in Dublin South in Jan-March 1937, until I found on in volume 2 on page 321

... and now I google his name and find that Ancestry has Ireland marriage registrations which I did not know

Name: Samuel Harold Boyce
Date of Registration: 1937 - Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Dublin South, Ireland
Volume: 2
Page number: 321
FHL Film Number: 101577
Household Members
Name
> Samuel Harold Boyce
> Norah May Milne

they had children in 1938 and 1941 (mother's name Milne) and possibly 1944


okay that seems to be Norah, husband was same age

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB5C-H4D

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Birth
> Event Date Jul - Sep 1910
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1910
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 590

and he died in England

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCT-1Y15

Name Samuel Harold Boyce
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1974
Event Place Maidstone, Kent, England
Birth Date 27 Jun 1910

(and remember that trick, where freebmd doesn't cover, use familysearch)

but I see no death record for Norah

I don't think it's particularly odd, single women often stayed living at home to look after an elderly or ill parent. She may not have lived with them all her life though, she could just have moved back home after having a career herself. her death cert may give a former occupation which might be useful to know.

Ah ok so they each have a probate.... Clodagh living with parents all her life is that not odd. Going to order the death certificate tonight

What a pity this didn't come up last week before I went to Chester, I might have had a look in the newpaper archives at the records office.

Probate for Eileen same address ( they seem to have called the house 'Lagos' )

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=johnston&yearOfDeath=1990&page=2#calendar

Tuts at self for not looking!

1981 Frederick William Johnston probate
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=johnston&yearOfDeath=1981&page=3#calendar

Same address as Clodagh.

Alexandra ... ships do not have judges

the occupations listed on passenger records are people's ordinary occupations at the time

Mr Johnston didn't work on a ship ... he worked for the British government overseas, in an embassy or consulate most likely, eventually being appointed a judge, remember this was when the colonies like Kenya did not have self-government, the appointed British governors and civil servants ran the governments there

it is possible that the last record meant he was going to be a judge in England, but it looks like he was of retirement age, so he had been a judge in the colony and was retiring back home to Cheshire

Clodagh was an unmarried daughter of a well-to-do foreign service officer, so yes, she travelled back and forth with them

The death cert will only show what the informant knew to be true or assumed, if it was a relative or someone who knew her history they might have given place of birth...but if they didn't know I would assume it was left blank.

I think I would order the death cert myself, to see if the informant was a relative?

There's a copy of one here so you can see what is likely to be on a cert ( EDIT changed the link to a copy cert)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/16/1366125787518/Margaret-Thatchers-death--001.jpg

a judge on the ship or in another country ?