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Possible for Margaret and John Ryan:
Name:Margaret Ryan
Age:26
Estimated birth year:abt 1845
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:John Ryan
Gender:Female
Where born:Poplar, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Poplar All Saints
6 Union Street

I can't find any Catholic Parish records online. I would think the children would have been baptised. Maybe, Julie, you need to contact the churches direct. Contact details:

You can contact us on 020 7987 4523. Our email address is [email protected]

One of the witnesses to the marriage was Margaret Ryan ( I can't make out the surname for the other one - first name George).

There is a possible Toomy/Ryan marriage:

Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%)

DOOLEY Mary Poplar 1c 1330
MAHON Owen Poplar 1c 1330
RYAN John Poplar 1c 1330
TOOMY Margaret Poplar 1c 1330

Potty It was not usual but not uncommon for Catholics in England to marry in an Anglican Church and may have depended on whether there was a RC Chapel/Church in the locality...Given that the area did have RC Churches eg SS Mary and Joseph its another puzzle to solve..

I had assumed that Patrick Kelly and Mary Toomey were Catholics but there is an image of the 1875 parish record on Ancestry.

Name:Patrick Kelly, batchelor, labourer, full age
Spouse: Mary Toomey , spinster, full age
Record Type:Marriage - after banns
Event Date:29 Jan 1875
Parish:All Saints, Poplar - Anglican Church!
Borough:Tower Hamlets
Father Name:James Kelly - laboure
Spouse Father:John Toomey - labourer

Address just given as Poplar.
Register Type:
Parish Register

The same family in 1861 and living at the same address (16 Well Street) as Patrick and Mary Kelly:


Name:John Tooney
[John Toomey]
Age:14
Estimated birth year:1847
Relation:Son
Father's name:John Tooway - widower
Gender:Male
Where born:Poplar
Civil Parish:Poplar

John Tooway 55
Margrett Toony 18
Catherine Tooney 16
William Tooney 12
John Tooney 14
Ann Tooney 10

Surely there must be an earlier marriage for Patrick & Mary - very unusual for that time for parents to live in the same house as an unmarried daughter and partner!

I agree with you .. it was one I looked at.

Not sure where Julie has got Mary's father as John if she doesn't have the marriage cert but I wonder if this is Mary in 1851 (the ages of John & William tie up with the censuses)

1851

Name:Mary Jwornos
[Mary Tuomy]
Age:13
Estimated birth year:abt 1838
Relation:Daughter
Father's name:John Jwornos - b Ireland
Mother's name:Margaret Jwornos - b Ireland
Gender:Female
Where born:Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Poplar

John Jwornos 38
Margaret Jwornos 36
Mary Jwornos 13
Thomas Jwornos 10
Margaret Jwornos 7
Catherine Jwornos 5
John Jwornos 2
William Jwornos 1 Mo
Jeremiah Sherdan 26 lodger
Sarah Sherdan 28 Lodger

Thank You Potty.

Really don't know what to make of the info. I can understand Patrick and Mary maybe marrying 1875 if either or both were married before but it looks like that wasn't the case given the in-laws who are listed..

1871 address is 3 Robin Hood Cottages.

1871...Census


I don't have access to check Street address...


Partrick Kelley

England and Wales Census, 1871

Name: Partrick Kelley
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 36
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Birthplace: Ireland
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Poplar
Sub-District: Poplar
Parish: Poplar
County: London, Middlesex

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Partrick Kelley Self M 36 Ireland
Mary Kelley Wife F 36 Poplar, Middlesex
Catherine Kelley Daughter F 14 Poplar, Middlesex
James Kelley Son M 12 Poplar, Middlesex
Tomas Kelley Son M 9 Poplar, Middlesex
Jeramiah Kelley Son M 7 Poplar, Middlesex
John Kelley Son M 4 Poplar, Middlesex
Margaret Kelley Daughter F 0 Poplar, Middlesex
William Toomy Brother-in-law M 19 Poplar, Middlesex
Ann Toomy Sister F 16 Poplar, Middlesex

Confusing to say the least...Patrick married Mary Toomy 1875...??

The 1910 Register of Electors for Poplar shows an Edward Turben living 48 Wells St Poplar

Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)

Kelly Catherine Poplar 1c 960
TURBEN Edmund Poplar 1c 960
TURBEN Edward Poplar 1c 960

You didn't apparently notice my comment............re 1851 census

I copy


It also makes more sense than the 1871 with regard to Catherine's birth year, in that 1841 rounded down ages of the over-15's, and the woman in 1871 was ten years younger

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Well Street, Poplar, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Patrick Kelly Head Married Male 25 1836 Labourer Ireland Transcription
Mary Kelly Wife Married Female 23 1838 - Middlesex, England Transcription
Catherine Kelly Daughter Single Female 3 1858 - Middlesex, England Transcription
James Kelly Son - Male 1 1860 - Middlesex, England

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
44, Wells Street, Poplar, London, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Patrick Kelly Head Married Male 46 1835 Gen Lab Ireland Transcription
Mary Kelly Wife Married Female 40 1841 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Jeremiah Kelly Son Single Male 16 1865 Gen Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
John Kelly Son Single Male 14 1867 Gen Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Annie Kelly Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Johanna Kelly Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
William Kelly Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Mary Kelly Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Ellen Tirben Grand Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
John Toomey Brother In Law Single Male 34 1847 Gen.Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Anne Toomey Sister In Law Single Female 36 1845 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Cathrine Tirben Boarder Married Female 23 1858 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription

You may need to consider whether Mary Toomey was a second wife. Of course, the cert should help with that

Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)

Kelly Patrick Poplar 1c 965
TOOMEY Mary Poplar 1c 965

The copy cert will cost £9.25 from the GRO, including postage

Julie, for the purposes of the 1841 census ages of adults were rounded down to multiples of 5. So someone recorded as age 30 could be aged between 30 and 34. Someone aged 15 could be aged 15 to 19. Given that Catherine was aged 44 in 1851 that would fit with her age being recorded as 30 in 1841.

Right, let's see, Patrick 1935 married Mary Toomey 1838, she was born in London, they lived in Poplar which fits with family memories, and one or two other names like Turbin keep coming up which also fits. Her father was John Toomey born Ireland, no mothers details as far as I can see.
I cannot find a marriage for them anywhere, but I found children on census returns.
Catherine 1858
James 1860
Jeremiah 1865
John 1867
Annie 1873
Johanna 1876
William 1878
Mary 1881 who later married ?Bill Bousefield, my nan Annie's father in 1901.
It looks like there were two more children, possibly Toma 1862 and Margaret 1870
I also think that Catherine Sullivan may have had Edward at 15 and lied about her age and his to hide it, on the 1841 she gives her age as 30 and his as 15, but ten years later she is 44 and he is 22, three years would have made all the difference to the Catholic community. I would absolutely love to find out where she was really from, why she left Ireland and did she have a husband, I seem to have got Jeremiah from a record in Kerry that I thought might be her, but now I am not so sure. I have seen nothing at all with Patrick's fathers name on it, but I am beginning to suspect it might have been James, I wish I could find a record somewhere, I actually now live in Ireland, so if it means trying to find them in Parish records I may have to do that, I really appreciate your help, I'm not skilled at this but I'm learning.

You do need to concentrate on Patrick..........who did he marry?

If that's the right one in 1841 and 1851, it's more likely that the 1871 with Catherine living with son MICHAEL is the right woman

Seriously Jacqueline, the more I look the more confused I get! I have been looking at this on and of for years, so if I went wrong in the beginning, then I'm sunk! I'll go back and have a look at Patrick again and work backwards.
I just have a picture of the poor enumerator knocking on doors in the rain and asking the same questions over and over again, I always supposed that ages, birthplaces and such would maybe get confused at the door.