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Can anyone help me find my ancestors please? I think Catherine ( c1811) came from Claremorris, Co Mayo,at least that's what it looks like on the 1871 census, although the summary has it as Clarimarie, very difficult to read! She left Ireland with her five sons, father and brother, no husband, Jeremiah Kelly listed anywhere, and she is counted as a widow on the 1841 census, in Spitalfields London, working as a market trader, selling fruit it looks like, I cannot find a mention of her anywhere, as for years I have been looking in the wrong county! Family memories have mentioned Mayo, so this looks likely, if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be so grateful, all her boys were born in Ireland, the eldest named Edward, I'm really stuck!! :-(

For INFO only

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Dolphin Court, Christchurch, Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Jeremiah Sullivan Male 50 1791 Ireland Transcription
Jeremiah Sullivan Male 20 1821 Ireland Transcription GREENGROCER
Catherine Kelly Female 30 1811 Ireland Transcription FRUITERER
Edward Kelly Male 15 1826 - Transcription
Jeremiah Kelly Male 13 1828 Ireland Transcription
Patrick Kelly Male 7 1834 Ireland Transcription
John Kelly Male 2 1839 Ireland Transcription
Michael Kelly Male 5 1836 Ireland Transcription
Elenor Murphy Female 15 1826 Ireland Transcription


1841 does not record marital status, or relationships to other household members

If this is the right woman in 1871, the birthplace says 'Ireland' only

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Stockwell Street, Camberwell, London, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Michael Kelly Head - Male 34 1837 - Ireland Transcription
Catherine Kelly Wife - Female 30 1841 - Ireland Transcription
Catherine Kelly Mother - Female 65 1806 - Ireland Transcription
Mary A Kelly Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Surrey, England Transcription
Michael Kelly Son - Male 3 1868 - Surrey, England Transcription
Catherine Kelly Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Surrey, England Transcription

Please would you say how you know the first name of her husband

Is it from a child's marriage cert?

hi
could this be michael kelly in 1871

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Michael Kelly
England and Wales Census, 1871
Name: Michael Kelly
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Birthplace: Ireland
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Islington
Sub-District: Islington, West
Parish: St James
County: London, Middlesex
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Michael Kelly Self M 35 Ireland
Catherine Kelly Wife F 35 Ireland
Catherine Kelly Daughter F 12 Islington, Middlesex
Stephen Clifford Stepson M 7 Islington, Middlesex
Mary Clifford Stepdaughter F 5 Islington, Middlesex

Catherine Sullivan
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name: Catherine Sullivan
Age (Original): 70
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1811
Birthplace: Ireland
Relationship to Head of Household: Inmate
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Field Hand
Address: Edmonton Union Workhouse Church Road
Event Place: Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Record Type: Household

I think this is the 1871 Julie means:

Name:Catherine Kelly
Age:55
Estimated birth year:abt 1816
Relation:Head
Gender:Female
Where born:Clanimarie, Mayo, Ireland
Civil Parish:St James Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish:St Silas
County/Island:London
Country:England
egistration district:Holborn

Catherine Kelly 55
Mary Kelly 27
Bridget Kelly 24
John Kelly 23
William Kelly 18

Sub-registration district:
Pentonville


All children b Ireland, except William. Don't think this is the same woman as in the 1841, unless she returned to Ireland to have the older children.

1841 fits the info Julie gave about the family members, and the woman's occupation, which is Fruiterer

We could do with knowing how Julie connects with these people............which of the sons she descends from, if any.

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
White Rose Court, Saint Botolph Bishopsgate, East London, Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Catheine Kelly Head Widow Female 44 1807 General Dealer Ireland Transcription
Edward Kelly Son Unmarried Male 22 1829 Brick Layer Edmonton Transcription
Patrick Kelly Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Carman - Bishopsgate Transcription
John Kelly Son Unmarried Male 9 1842 Scholar - Bishopsgate Transcription
Jeremia Sullivan Father Unmarried Male 74 1777 Farm Lab Ireland Transcription
Patrick Sullivan Brother Unmarried Male 40 1811 Labourer Ireland Transcription
Honora Starling Sister Married Female 36 1815 General Dealer Ireland Transcription
Ann Donoron Servant Unmarried Female 42 1809 Servant Ireland Transcription
Michal Collins Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1833 Labourer Ireland Transcription


This tallies with 1841, where Edward's birthplace is Not in County...............as opposed to Ireland

It also makes more sense than the 1871 with regard to Catherine's birth year, in that 1841 rounded down ages of the over-15's, and the woman in 1871 was ten years younger

Thank you all very much, Potty, that's the one I think is right, Patrick (1835) is my GGGranfather, and my Nan always said her mother Mary told her they were from Mayo, but family rarely talked about anything then! Jacqueline....I actually don't know where the Jeremiah came from, again, stories, no actual records, I cannot find birth records for any of the children and as far as I know she never returned to Ireland. I just found her on the 1881 living at 22a Warren St, as the children look right, and she was 70 so that's about right. According to some family members, it was quite common to say you or your children were born in England not Ireland given the amount of prejudice towards Irish people.
Does anyone know how I could find a marriage for her, or even a death for her father, who definitely was called Jeremiah? :-D

Marriages Sep 1848 (>99%)

HENN Amelia Lambeth 4 337
HOLBURN Henry Lambeth 4 337
MAHON Mary Lambeth 4 337
MANEY Richard Lambeth 4 337
STARLING Thomas Lambeth 4 337 *********
Sullivan Ann Norah Lambeth 4 337 **********
SYMONDS John Lambeth 4 337
Wilson Caroline Amelia Lambeth 4 337

You need Patrick's marriage cert to find out who he named as his father

Who, when, where did he marry?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think that the 1871 Potty posted (as per your info) is correct...........unless 1841 is NOT the right family

One sure thing - they are not the same family

Seriously Jacqueline, the more I look the more confused I get! I have been looking at this on and of for years, so if I went wrong in the beginning, then I'm sunk! I'll go back and have a look at Patrick again and work backwards.
I just have a picture of the poor enumerator knocking on doors in the rain and asking the same questions over and over again, I always supposed that ages, birthplaces and such would maybe get confused at the door.

You do need to concentrate on Patrick..........who did he marry?

If that's the right one in 1841 and 1851, it's more likely that the 1871 with Catherine living with son MICHAEL is the right woman

Right, let's see, Patrick 1935 married Mary Toomey 1838, she was born in London, they lived in Poplar which fits with family memories, and one or two other names like Turbin keep coming up which also fits. Her father was John Toomey born Ireland, no mothers details as far as I can see.
I cannot find a marriage for them anywhere, but I found children on census returns.
Catherine 1858
James 1860
Jeremiah 1865
John 1867
Annie 1873
Johanna 1876
William 1878
Mary 1881 who later married ?Bill Bousefield, my nan Annie's father in 1901.
It looks like there were two more children, possibly Toma 1862 and Margaret 1870
I also think that Catherine Sullivan may have had Edward at 15 and lied about her age and his to hide it, on the 1841 she gives her age as 30 and his as 15, but ten years later she is 44 and he is 22, three years would have made all the difference to the Catholic community. I would absolutely love to find out where she was really from, why she left Ireland and did she have a husband, I seem to have got Jeremiah from a record in Kerry that I thought might be her, but now I am not so sure. I have seen nothing at all with Patrick's fathers name on it, but I am beginning to suspect it might have been James, I wish I could find a record somewhere, I actually now live in Ireland, so if it means trying to find them in Parish records I may have to do that, I really appreciate your help, I'm not skilled at this but I'm learning.

Julie, for the purposes of the 1841 census ages of adults were rounded down to multiples of 5. So someone recorded as age 30 could be aged between 30 and 34. Someone aged 15 could be aged 15 to 19. Given that Catherine was aged 44 in 1851 that would fit with her age being recorded as 30 in 1841.

Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)

Kelly Patrick Poplar 1c 965
TOOMEY Mary Poplar 1c 965

The copy cert will cost £9.25 from the GRO, including postage

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
44, Wells Street, Poplar, London, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Patrick Kelly Head Married Male 46 1835 Gen Lab Ireland Transcription
Mary Kelly Wife Married Female 40 1841 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Jeremiah Kelly Son Single Male 16 1865 Gen Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
John Kelly Son Single Male 14 1867 Gen Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Annie Kelly Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Johanna Kelly Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
William Kelly Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Mary Kelly Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Ellen Tirben Grand Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
John Toomey Brother In Law Single Male 34 1847 Gen.Lab Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Anne Toomey Sister In Law Single Female 36 1845 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription
Cathrine Tirben Boarder Married Female 23 1858 - Poplar, Middlesex, England Transcription

You may need to consider whether Mary Toomey was a second wife. Of course, the cert should help with that

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Well Street, Poplar, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Patrick Kelly Head Married Male 25 1836 Labourer Ireland Transcription
Mary Kelly Wife Married Female 23 1838 - Middlesex, England Transcription
Catherine Kelly Daughter Single Female 3 1858 - Middlesex, England Transcription
James Kelly Son - Male 1 1860 - Middlesex, England

You didn't apparently notice my comment............re 1851 census

I copy


It also makes more sense than the 1871 with regard to Catherine's birth year, in that 1841 rounded down ages of the over-15's, and the woman in 1871 was ten years younger