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Help needed to get going on my future daughter in laws tree Not much to go off

I have her mother Barbara Howarth b 1950 Lancashire ( Salford) her parents were
Marriage Certificate 5th August 1939
Sam Howarth 25 Bachelor a Wire worker 73mackendale St father Earnest Howarth deceased a General Labourer
Ivy Lee 18 Spinster 4 Harry St Salford father James Lee Deceased a Laundry man

I've got James Lee & Mary Jane Peacock as Ivy's parents
Ernest Howarth and Margaret Byrne as Sam's Parents although the family say it was Sam but as it's on the marriage as Ernest

That is all I've got if anyone can get me going I'd appreciate it

AS YOU CAN SEE I HAVE HAD SOME INFO BUT

I have since found out that the marriage certificate I had was right Ernest Howarth was step father ?
Apparently Sam Howarth the father died in WW1, think the mother married her brother in law? not asked that yet
But I would like to know about his WW1 record

Sam Howarth born 1883 Eccles Lancashire their is one who died in 1915 but I need credits to get into it his number is 29843 a Gunner

Name: Ivy Lee
Mother's Maiden Surname: Peacock
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1921
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8d
Page Number: 237

Yes I did see that her birth was 27th Dec 1920 From what I can gather she was born at 4 harry St Salford

But Ernest Howarth & Margaret Byrne didn't marry until 1935:

Marriages Sep 1935 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Byrne Margaret Howarth Burnley 8e 492
Howarth Ernest Byrne Burnley 8e 492

I think you have the wrong marriage for Sam's parents. This is more likely to be the one given Sam's age when he married in 1939:-

First name(s) MAGGIE
Last name BYRNE
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1910
Registration month -

MarriageFinder™ MAGGIE BYRNE married one of these people
***SAMUEL HOWARTH,*** JOHN WILLIAM WIGNALL

Spouse's last name -
District BARTON UPON IRWELL
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8C
Page 1049

Kath. x

This looks like Sam Howarth jnr.'s birth:-

First name(s) SAM
Last name HOWARTH
Birth year 1914
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name BYRNE
District BARTON UPON IRWELL
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8C
Page 1246

Kath. x

Thanks Kath

It looks as though your right and it matches with the family saying his name was Sam.

I'll go with that as they also said Maggie not Margaret

They gave me the certificate it's only a copy they could have got it off the net

If Sam jnr.'s father died when Sam was young he may not have been sure of his father's name and so gave Ernest by mistake.

Kath. x

This looks like Sam and Maggie in the 1911 census:-

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1 Bentcliffe Street Eccles, Eccles, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation

Sam Howarth Head Married Male 27 1884 Lancs Eccles Mechanics Labourer
Maggie Howarth Wife Married Female 21 1890 Lancs Salford -
Nora Howarth Daughter - Female 0 1911 Lancs Eccles -

Married one year.

Kath. x

That could be their was some thing mentioned about the father dying
but I thought it was Sam Jnr I think I've got my wires crossed

I'll take it that this certificate I've got is right but Ernest is Sam

could these be the chidren of james and mary

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Lee Ivy Peacock Salford 8d 237
Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
Lee Doris Peacock W.Derby 8b 934
Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Lee Louise Peacock W.Derby 8b 1069
Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Lee Olive Peacock W. Derby 8b 1073
Births Jun 1931 (>99%)
Lee Violet E Peacock W.Derby 8b 1101

1891

Name: Margaret Ann Byrne
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Byrne
Mother's name: Baby Byrne
Gender: Female
Where born: Bootle, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bootle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Bootle
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2973
Folio: 53
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
John Byrne 29 born Ireland Coal Heaver
Baby Byrne 29 says Betsy****************born Bootle Lancs
Margaret Ann Byrne 1
Eliza Hall 50
John Stanton 34 Barber boarder******************
Patrick McCormick 28

Name: Maggie Byrne
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Conway
Civil Parish: Bootle cum Linacre
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 80 Irlam Rd Bootle
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Cop Winder
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Bootle
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 22422
Household Members:
Name Age
Besty Byrne 49 Widow
Maggie Byrne 21
Johanna Byrne 18
John Stanton 54 Barber boarder *********************
Thomas Byrne 54
Annie Byrne 47
Katie Byrne 5
Lennard Byrne 14
Thomas Conndley 20

I too have just started to do an in-law tree and I have a word of advice ... ask questions. I was given very minimal info and started to dig, spent a lot of time digging and even sent for one or two certificates, then I hit a bit of a brick wall. I asked about it and the in-laws came up with a whole pile of info that I'd spent hours searching for. Prod them for every bit of info you can - save yourself time and money. Now Iknow to ask questions before I delve too deep.

John Byrne married Elizabeth Crook 20th Oct 1884 at ST Alexanders Church West Derby.

He signed his name and Elilzabeth made her mark X

His address 12 Emily St Bootle

His father John Byrne deceased Farrier

Her address 29 Lyons St Bootle

Her father John Crook deceased Engine Driver

Witnesses James O'Keeffe and Mary O'Brian

Sorry for the delay

Thank you all for your input I'll have to digest this info 2 - 1911 censuses ?
I've asked questions but they don't seem to know ant more
I was like this when I started my own tree but then things you find out triggers a memory I'm hoping this will do the same

Thank you
Sylvia

A possibility???

There is this birth reg:



Births Jun 1885 (>99%)
Howarth Ernest Samuel Chorlton 8c 889

and this death reg:

Deaths Sep 1931 (>99%)
Howarth Ernest S 46 Manchester S. 8d

which would fit if Ernest was sometimes known as Sam. (The death in 1931 would fit with the deceased father Ernest on the marriage cert in 1939)

Above Ernest in 1901

Ernest S Howarth
AGE: 15
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1886
RELATION TO HEAD: Son
GENDER: Male
FATHER: Joseph Howarth
MOTHER: Ada Howarth
BIRTH PLACE: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Moss Side
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: Moss Side St James
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

EDUCATION:

EMPLOYMENT STATUS:

View image
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Hulme
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 82
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 3711
FOLIO: 78
PAGE NUMBER: 8
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 46
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Joseph Howarth 38
Ada Howarth 39
Ernest S Howarth 15
Joseph O Howarth 12
Rose Howarth 10
Laurence Howarth 7
Ada Howarth 5
John H Howarth 3
Edna V Howarth 1
Laura Burgess 32
Rose Burgess 29

Ada is widowed in 1911 but does state 8 children born, 7 living and one had died.

Ada Howarth
AGE IN 1911: 49
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1862
RELATION TO HEAD: Head
GENDER: Female
BIRTH PLACE: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: South Manchester
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 260 Great Western St Moss Side Manchester
MARITAL STATUS: Widowed
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
REGISTRATION DISTRICT NUMBER: 464
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Didsbury
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 43
PIECE: 23700
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Ada Howarth 49
Joseph Oscar Howarth 22
Rose Howarth 20
Laurence Howarth 19
Ada Howarth 15
John Mary Howarth 13
Edna V Howarth 11
Alice Maud 40
Thomas Aring 22

No service record showing for Ernest on Ancestry but there is this medal card.

Ernest Samuel Howarth
MILITARY YEAR: 1914-1920
RANK: Private
MEDAL AWARDED: British War Medal and Victory Medal
REGIMENT OR CORPS: Labour Corps
REGIMENTAL NUMBER: 462965
PREVIOUS UNITS:


There is also a bit about E. Howarth wounded in action at The Somme and invalided home. When he had recover sufficiently, he spent the remainder of the war doing agricultural work in Oxford. The address given for him is Birch Road, Moss-side, Manchester.

Just wondering if that is your Ernest Samuel and his life was shorten due to wartime injuries?

Sorry that address was Birch Street and the info was from The National Roll of the Great War.

E. Howarth
MILITARY DATE: Nov 1915
RESIDENCE YEAR: Abt 1914
RESIDENCE PLACE: 24, Birch Street, Moss Side, Manchester, England
RANK: Private
REGIMENT: Lancashire Fusiliers
SECTION: Section XI, Manchester