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I do wonder though, as she was clearly a fair bit younger than Henry on the census would she have been likely to have understated her age? Thinking about it more, I don't think so, more likely to have over-stated to make her look older, so possibly quite a bit younger than Henry? Maybe too young to have married him when they got together?

Clutching at straws here really, I just can't fiind anything.

Could look likely Maureen, still don't know if she's our Edith though. Interestingly there is another C Jameison age 7 on that same census born London, Middlesex - so a younger sister maybe?

Strange how all the spellings for Jameison are the same for this census.......wonder if they were from the admission register?

This isn't of any help either but I think it's probably the Eliza Flip was looking at:

Royal Caledonian Asylum for Orphans

1861 Ancestry
Name: E Jameison
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Scholar
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 62

Piece: 135
Folio: 113
Page Number: 36

Also on page is C Jameison age 14 ...sister Caroline?

Maureen

Sorry, but I can't find anything on Eliza, nor anything more for the Eliza on your census or the one on mine. Maybe someone else may have some more luck.

Nor can I find Richard Joseph Forbes in 1901, but a possible for him in the military in 1911 serving in Burma with Surrey regiment - do you know if he also enlisted like his brothers?

Thanks Flip and Sylvia. I'd be grateful if anyone could help on this, especially with Henry/Eliza marriage, although if Flip is correct and Eliza was previously married, it becomes almost impossible to find if she used her previous marriage surname rather than her maiden name.

ancestry has .................

Wattie Jamieson born ca 1808, Dall, Shetland, Scotland

Christina Jamieson born ca 1812, Sannag, Shetland

Mary Ann born ca 1844 Westminster St Margarets

Carroline b. ca 1847 Westminster St Margarets

Ok, I'm looking at the 1911 census and hoping the birth place is correct and the age (now she doesn't have to lie to hubby) may be nearer the truth - so what about this for 1851 (starter for 10 as I'm sure I'll be shot down with her marriage or death!!)

Eliza Jamieson Age:1
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1850
Relation:Daughter
Father's Name:Wattie Jamieson
Mother's name:Christina Jamieson
Gender:Female
Where born:Westmr St Margts
Civil Parish:Westminster St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish:St Stephen
County/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Street address:Occupation:Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image
Registration district:Westminster
Sub-registration district:St Margaret
ED, institution, or vessel:20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number:51
Piece:1480
Folio:636
Page Number:11
Household Members:NameAge
Wattie Jamieson 43
Christina Jamieson 39
Mary Ann Jamieson 7
Carroline Jamieson 4
Eliza Jamieson 1

ADDED: Her father was actually Walter, born Shetland and a private soldier. Mother also born Shetland.

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the update, good that you have got a birth certificate for Eliza's birth name. I'm guessing your Chelsea pensioner is descended from Richard Joseph as you already had his birth and death dates?

To re-cap, Eliza Forbes first appears with Henry in 1881 (he was single in 1871), and we can't find a marriage for them - so were either married before so not free to marry?

Her maiden name is Jamieson, but where and when was she born - census ages differ:

1881 age 28 birth place not known (so c1853)
1891 census entry missing although we know they were living Paradise Street
1901 age 46, born Westminster (so c 1855)
1911 age 61 born Minster living in Woolwich (so c 1850) living alone

There is a possible death in Woolwich in 1933 for Eliza b1850.

So was either of Henry Forbes or Eliza Jamieson married before 1881? Although, if Ellen was their first child born in 1876 that narrows the gap for Henry's previous marriage - but not Eliza's - she could have been married anytime after 1866 if the 1850 birthdate is correct.

Just a suggestion, but if you go to your first post you can change the heading to "updated info on Eliza Jamieson please - see last post" or something like that. It may get more people looking.

I've now obtained the birth certificate of Richard Joseph Forbes, which reveals that his mother's maiden name was (Eliza) Jamieson. I've found a possible entry in the 1861 England Census (RG 9; Piece: 39; Folio: 7; Page: 12) but her birth year is shown as 1860, whereas the 1881 census shows her as 1853. I can't find her birth on Ancestry, nor her marriage to Henry Forbes.

The 1861 census details are:-

Name: Eliza A Jamieson
Age: 11/12
Estimated Birth Year: 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Jamieson
Mother's name: Jessie Jamieson
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 3d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 39
Folio: 7
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
James Jamieson 29
Jessie Jamieson 23
Eliza A Jamieson 11/12
Ann Haywards 38

Any further help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ron

Ron, I sent you a PM (private message) but you haven't opened it - so I'm not sure if you are familiar with the system.

If you scroll back up to the top of the page you'll see messages on the banner, click on it and on "inbox" they you can see your private messages.

Hi everyone,

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, but I was at the Royal Hospital 'celebrating' the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WW1. The powers that be had organised for a number of pensioners to tour around London in Edwardian cars - 50 or so in all. Prince Michael of Kent was in attendance and it was quite a spectacle. I can't imagine the total value of the vehicles on show.

Yes, Flip I'm loving volunteering. My wife also volunteers. We have both worked all our lives and now having retired we thought we'd give a little bit back.

I'm most grateful to all of you for your help and 'my' pensioner is thrilled to bits with what's been uncovered. I will report back once I've received the birth certificate.

Once again, many thanks for all your efforts.

Ron

You're right Chris, I looked for other men living in the street a couple of doors each side, and a couple further up the street according to 1891/92 ERs and none of them show up on the 1891 census.

(some addresses in Paradise Walk appear to be missing in 1891)

http://www.howesfamilies.com/getperson.php?personID=I71290&tree=Onename


Above from google search for Paradise Walk 1891, seems another family missing also!.

Chris :)

Re the 1871 Census

Henry and Charles are down as "son in laws",


it was very common in the 19th C to use "son-in-law" (or daughter-in-law) on a census for the children born of a previous marriage of the spouse of the Head of the establishment (usually, of course, this would be children of the wife)

ie, what we would now call step-children

I've seen it used as late as the 1891 Census ................... although it was more common before about 1880 and especially in the 1850s-1870s

Which of their children was his direct line - it may be good to get that birth certificate for him?

ADDED: once you come out of the darkened room let us know if you want any more research..... and it's a great job you're doing volunteering like that, I guess you get some pleasure from it, really good to do something to help others.

Hope your Chelsea Pensioner is pleased with what has been found so far.

Good find on that military record Choccy, think it confirms the marriage/census/death are likely to be him.

Wow, everyone. Thanks so much for all your hard work. I think I need to sit down in a darkened room and go through what you've uncovered to make sense of it!
I'm undertaking this research for one of the Chelsea Pensioners (the Men in Scarlet). I'm a volunteer there and the person concerned was interested in knowing a little more about his father's side. I, with your help, am certainly getting there.
It's quite a coincidence that Paradise Walk is virtually next door to the Royal Hospital Chelsea, where my pensioner now resides.
I think I will have to purchase the birth certificate of one of Henry's children in order to determine Eliza's maiden name, as suggested.
Once again, many thanks.

??
1911 FMPast
First name(s) Eliza
Last name Forbes

Marital condition Widow
Gender Female
Age 61
Birth year 1850
Occupation Laundress
Birth place London Westminster
Address 27 Sand St Woolwich
Registration district Woolwich

Enumeration district 15
Census reference RG14
Census reference RG14PN2872 RG78PN98 RD30 SD2 ED15 SN194
Piece number 2872

Says married 38 years 10 children-6 still living.

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name FORBES

Birth year 1887

Birth parish CHELSEA
Birth town LONDON
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND

Service number 718

Regiment Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1905
Attestation Day 20
Attestation Month 1
Attestation age years 18
Attestation age months 8
Attestation Corps Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Attestation service number 718
Discharge Corps Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Series chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 4857
Box Record Number 19
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

Mother - Elizabeth - address unknown
Brother - Harry - Rifle Brigade
Brother - Richard Joseph - address unknown
Sister - Annie SANDIFORD 42 High Field Road, Fulham

Discharged 1905
Intended place of residence - 1 Ashley Avenue, Cheriton, Folkestone, Kent

Hi SylviainCanada Thanks, yes, that looks promising for Ellen