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Hi, ive been stuck for years now trying to find out more about my great grandfather.
Ive used all records such as census, BMD etc and cant get any further.
Facts
My grandmother- Alice Gardner/Alice Gardiner born in 1901 in
Forster rd Croydon
Her brother Noah born in 1894 in a tent on mitcham common.
I know about their siblings but am stuck on their parents.
I have
Mother- Louisa Gardiner formally hunt but also smith ( what is that about???) b approx 1867
Father - George Gardniner B approx 1894
They were all poor but I cant seem to get a definite fix on them prior to their marriage in approx 1889
It is driving me mad so any info would eb gratefully recieved especially if they were gypsies or just poor and who were their parents???
Helllllllllllpppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks

Is this the marriage



Surrey, England, Marriages, 1754-1937


Name:George Gardener

Age:21

Birth Year:abt 1862

Marriage Date:25 Dec 1883

Archive Provided Parish:Mitcham, St Peter and St Paul

Parish as it Appears:Mitcham

Spouse:Louisa Hunt

Spouse Age:19

Father:John Gardener

Spouse Father:William Hunt

Reference Number:P40/1/21

Also have you or are you a member of ROOTSCHAT

It is FREE to join

And they have a whole section dedicated to Gypsies and the travelling community.

I've had a root around and was thinking that this might be Louisa



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906



Name:Louisa Hunt

Record Type:Baptism

Baptism Date:30 Jan 1867

Father's Name:William Hunt <<Tinker

Mother's Name:Eliza Hunt

Parish or Poor Law Union:Great Stanmore St John the Evangelist

Borough:Harrow

Register Type:Parish Registers

Could this be the family in 1911 and they changed their name???????


1911 England Census about Alice Gardener
Name: Alice Gardener
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Upper Wallinton, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: 49 Dryden Rd, W Croydon, Croydon
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: School
Registration District: Croydon
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration District: West Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household Schedule Number: 102
Piece: 3348
Household Members:
Name Age
George Dellaway 37
Luryes Dellaway 38??Louise*********
Nore Gardener 16 Noah??*************
Florence Gardener 14
Alice Gardener 11************************
Polley Dellaway 7
Jane Dellaway 5
Alfred Dellaway 3
Sarria Dellaway 6 M

1891 England Census


Name:Eliza Hunt

Age:57

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1834

Relation:Wife

Spouse's Name:William Hunt

Gender:Female

Where born:Witney, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish:Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish:St Saviour
Town:Croydon

County/Island:Surrey
Registration District:Croydon

Sub-registration District:Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel:37
Piece:592

Folio:20
Page Number:40

Household Members:


William Hunt 59 <<Travelling Tinker
Eliza Hunt 57 <<Flower Seller
Mary A Hunt 14 <<Flower Seller
George Hunt 12
James Hunt 10

Looks like Louisa' parents and siblings

1901 census transcription details for: Gipsie's Tent, Chelsham


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 630
Folio: 53
Page: 16
Reg. District: Godstone
Sub District: Godstone
Parish: Chelsham
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District: St Leonard
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Gipsie's Tent, Chelsham
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GARDNER, George Head Married M 37 1864 Field Labourer
Croydon, Surrey
GARDNER, Louisa Wife Married F 36 1865 Field Labourer
Watford, Hertfordshire
GARDNER, Katherine L Daughter F 9 1892
Farnboro, Kent
GARDNER, Noah Son M 6 1895
Croydon, Surrey
GARDNER, Florence Daughter F 3 1898
Orpington, Surrey

I'm still stuck on the non-marriage image on Ancestry.

Kevin-have you asked about these people before??

And yes,DC,Rootschat is GREAT.... as are other sites for Romani gypsy travellers,etc.

And...while I'm typing you'll have it all sorted out.


Maureen :-)

Yes Maureen,there are the two sites

Romanygenes and Romanyjib

They often used different names in the census as I have discovered they did not always marry formerly ,making tracking them quite a challenge :-)

1881 England Census

Name:Eliza Hunt

Age:45

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1836

Relationship to Head:Wife

Spouse:William Hunt

Gender:Female

Where born:Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish:Mitcham

County/Island:Surrey

Street Address:Mitcham Common (Tent)

Marital Status:Married

Registration District:Croydon

Sub-registration District:Mitcham

ED, institution, or vessel:5

Piece:826
Folio:149
Page Number:38

Household Members:


William Hunt 46 <<It says Tinman on the record, I suspect that's a mistake and it should be Tinker
Eliza Hunt 45
Sarah Hunt 20
Louisa Hunt 16
William Hunt 18
Albert Hunt 10
Richard Hunt 8
Mary A. Hunt 4
George Hunt 2



Mo~~~~

What are you stuck on :-S

I think this is Louisa' parents, looks like where the name Smith came from



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921


Name:William Hunt <<Hmmm Brewer?

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1839

Age:28

Spouse Name:Elizabeth Smith

Spouse Age:28

Record Type:Marriage

Event Date:24 Feb 1867

Parish:Shoreditch St Leonard

Borough:Hackney

Father Name:William Hunt

Spouse Father Name:Joseph Smith

Register Type:Parish Register

Gins- the image on Ancestry:
Surrey, England, Marriages, 1754-1937 about George Gardener
Name: George Gardener
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1862
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1883
Archive Provided Parish: Mitcham, St Peter and St Paul
Parish as it Appears: Mitcham
Spouse:
Louisa Hunt
Spouse Age: 19
Father: John Gardener
Spouse Father: William Hunt
Reference Number: P40/1/21


Is very hard to read the notation:
the above named parties failed to put in an appearance after being given ??? the previous evening.

Oh, I get you

Is that why there is a cross on the image? They didn't marry then?

Maybe his baptism?


All Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 Results
Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 about George Gardner
Name: George Gardner
Birth Date: 2 Jul 1861
Baptism Date: 20 Jan 1861
Archive Provided Parish: Croydon, St John
Parish as it Appears: Croydon
Father: John Gardner. >> occupation, Ag Lab
Mother: Mary Ann Gardner
Reference Number: 2888/1/17

Birthdate of 2nd January 1861

notice. (that's the word...)


Don't mind me...I'm off on my own little parade.

You're doing well!!!

;-) :-D <3

Ask Dee!

Mo <3

Its having given notice the previous evening.

~~~~~~~ hello Maureen. :-D

Maybe this family??


All 1861 England Census Results
1861 England Census about George Gosden
Name: George Gosden
[George Gardner]
Age: 4 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Gosden
Mother's Name: Mary Gosden
Gender: Male
Where born: Camberwell, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image
Registration District: Croydon
Sub-registration District: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 217
Piece: 450
Folio: 115
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gosden 46
Mary Gosden 32
Mary Gosden 14
Noah Gosden 10
Thomas Gosden 7
Elizabeth Gosden 5
William Gosden 2
George Gosden 4 Months


Someone has corrected this.

Wonder if he was in 'clink' and that's why he couldn't marry?

Mo...........speak English!



1881 England Census

Name:George Gardener

Age:19

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1862

Relationship to Head:Prisoner

Gender:Male

Where born:Croydon, Surrey, England

Civil Parish:Lewes St John Southover
County/Island:Sussex
Country:England


Street Address:"Her Majestys Prison Lewes (Civil)"


Occupation:General Laborer

Registration District:Lewes

Sub-registration District:Lewes
ED, institution, or vessel:Her Majestys Prision

Piece:1071
Folio:79
Page Number:9

:-P :-PGins

Thanks Mel and Elizabeth.

Dee-those xray binocs........ ;-)

Moxxx