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That was very thoughtful of you William.

I'm sure Julie was very pleased to hear from you.

Good luck with your research.

I have already sent a personal message to Julie via the board and we are corresponding via that method. I posted the information on the thread as it may be useful to other people who are searching for the same family (I found this thread via Google whilst searching for James Miller).

William, welcome to the boards.

Julie last posted on this thread in May 2013 and may not be still watching it. If you click on her name there will be the opportunity to send her a personal message via Genes Reunited. If she still has the same email address as when she was posting, GR will be able to notify her that she has a message.

I have been researching my own family history and came across this forum/thread whilst searching for information on James Miller born 1856 in Tillicoultry. James is my great grandfathers older brother.

His other siblings are:
Margaret Miller
Jessie Miller
Euphemia Miller
Thomas Miller <- my great-grandfather
Isabella Miller

James' father William Miller (born 19/05/1832) originally came from Blackford, Perthshire (just over the the Ochil Hills from Tillicoultry). He moved to Tillicoultry around 1840 with his parents and siblings.

William's father was James Miller born 02/08/1809 in Blackford, Perthshire. He was a woollen weaver.
William's mother was Janet Eadie (census info suggests she was born in Auchterarder). She married James on 12/02/1832 in Blackford.

James' father was William Miller born 30/12/1781 at Kinpauch (a farm south of Blackford). William and his younger brother James were tenant farmers at Kinpauch and appear on the electoral roles of 1832 (when the right to vote was given to tenant farmers).
James' mother was Isabel Millar (married William on 28/02/1808 in Blackford).

William's father was James Miller born 30/06/1755 at Nether Badenheath (a farm to the south of Blackford, NE of Kinpauch).
William's mother was Mary Drummond. James and Mary married in Edinburgh in 1776 - The Parish Register states that James was a Farmer from Burnside (a farm about 500m west of Kinpauch that still exists), and that Mary was the daughter of John Drummond (from Mill of Drummond). Her father was deceased, and Mary was living in Edinburgh. They moved to Kinpauch after they were married.

James' father was Thomas Miller (probably born around 1730).
James' mother was Jean Guild.
This is about as far back as you can go to research the Miller line as the Parish Church burned down in 1738, taking the records with it.

You can see the location of Burnside and Kinpauch farms on this map (near the bottom right corner): http://maps.nls.uk/view/74428196

William

Thank You so so much Rootsgatherer and Argyllgran for all the information it is all great Thank You again :-D :-D

Janet Miller (Dowell)'s death:

1900 MILLER JANET DOWELL F 43 TILLICOULTRY /CLACKMANNAN 468/00 0072

Viewing the image will give you the exact date and other info.

Janet Miller's birth, from SP:

GROS Data: 468/00 0128
28/09/1895, 6am, at 8 Commercial Buildings, Tillicoultry.
Father: James Miller, wool carder.
Mother: Janet Miller, ms Dowell.
Parents' marriage: April 25th 1879, at Logie

Re Clackmannanshire:
"An adjustment was made by the Boundary Commission in 1891. Previously the county contained four parishes: Alloa, Clackmannan, Dollar and Tillicoultry and portions of Logie and Stirling. The Clackmannanshire portion of Stirling parish was transferred to Stirlingshire. The Clackmannan portion of Logie parish was divided into three parts. One was transferred to the Stirlingshire parish of Logie; a second was united with the parish of Alva, which was wholly given to Clackmannanshire; while the third part was absorbed by the parish of Alloa."
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/CLK/

Marriage (per SP):

1885 MCMORRAN DAVID
ROBERTSON ELIZABETH LADHOPE /ROXBURGH 776/0B 0024

But she was still calling herself Robertson on 1891 census.
In Scotland a married woman could/can legally use either surname after marriage.

Although Janet's birth is not coming up on Familysearch.org I think some of her siblings are. I suspect this is her mother in 1841 BUT her birth certificate from SCOTLANDSPEOPLE will confirm her mother's maiden surname and if her parents married after 1855 their marriage certificate will confirm their parents names.

1841

Piece: SCT1841/466 Place: Clackmannan -Clackmannanshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Clackmannan Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 3
Address: Sauchie Village

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks

FIFE Alex M 44 Coal Miner Clackmannanshire
FIFE Elspet F 39 Clackmannanshire
FIFE John M 18 Clackmannanshire
FIFE Robt M 10 Clackmannanshire
FIFE James M 5 Clackmannanshire
FIFE Thomas M 3 Clackmannanshire
FIFE Margaret F 10 Clackmannanshire
FIFE Mary F 8 Clackmannanshire
FIFE Elspet F 1 Clackmannanshire

I think that this is the Janet that the tree on Ancestry refers to. You would need to get the birth certificate to check that her mother's maiden surname matches that given by Janet on her marriage to Robert.

1901

Name: Janet Miller
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: James Miller
Gender: Female
Where born: Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire
Registration number: 468
Registration district: Tillicoultry
Civil parish: Tillicoultry
County: Clackmannanshire
Address: 8 Commercial Bdgs
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 50
Line: 24
Roll: CSSCT1901_152
Household Members:
Name Age
James Miller 44, Woollen Carder
Mary Miller 21
James Miller 17
William Miller 14
Maggie Miller 12
Alexander Miller 8
Janet Miller 5
Euphemia Miller 3


All born Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire

Same family in 1891

Name: James Miller
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Miller
Gender: Male
Where born: Tillicoultry, Clackmannan
Registration number: 468
Registration district: Tillicoultry
Civil parish: Tillicoultry
Town: Tillicoultry
County: Clackmannanshire
Address: 22 Union St
Occupation: Wool Carder
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 143
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1891_144
Household Members:
Name Age
James Miller 34
Janet Miller 34 b. Tillicoultry, Clackmannan
Mary Miller 11
James Miller 7
William Miller 4
Maggie Miller 2
Thomas Miller 3 Mo

A tree on Ancestry has


James Miller
Birth 29 APR 1856 in Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire
Father William Miller and mother Margaret Cunningham

Another tree has


Janet Dowell
Birth 17/03/1857 in Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire, Scotland
Married James Miller 25 April 1879 at Logie, Perth

1861

Name: Janet Dowell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: William Dowell
Mother's Name: Mary Dowell
Gender: Female
Where born: Tillicoultry, clackmannansh
Registration number: 468
Registration district: Tillicoultry
Civil parish: Tillicoultry
Town: Tillicoultry
County: Clackmannanshire
Address: Fredk Street
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 239
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_62
Household Members:
Name Age
William Dowell 32, b. Stirling, Weaver Wool
Mary Dowell 28, b. Clackmannan, clackmannansh
Margaret Dowell 5
Janet Dowell 4
James Dowell 2
Alexander Dowell 4 Mo

???

Name: Elizabeth Jamieson
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 21 Jun 1801
Christening Place: , PEEBLES, PEEBLES, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1801
Father's Name: John Jamieson
Mother's Name: Isobell Hatilie
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11768-5
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067920
Reference ID: 2:188435H



The spelling of Isabel's surname varies on the christening records for her children.

Hitlie
Heatley
Hattlie
Hatley
Hateley

John's surname too

Jamison
Jameson
Jamieson

1841

Name: Elizabeth Laurie
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Female
Where born: Midlothian, Scotland

Civil parish: Stow
County: Midlothian
Address: Cortleferry
Parish Number: 699
Household Members:
Name Age
James Laurie 38
Elizabeth Laurie 38
Margaret Laurie 15
John Laurie 13
Gabella Laurie 10
Ellen Laurie 7
Elizabeth Laurie 5
Alison Laurie 2
William Laurie 4



James and Elizabeth died after 1861 so hopefully their death certificates will name their parents.

Name: James Laurie
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth Laurie
Gender: Male
Where born: Selkirk, Selkirkshire
Registration number: 699
Registration district: Stow
Civil parish: Stow
County: Midlothian
Address: Fernieherst Steward House
Occupation: Farm Steward
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 32
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_133
Household Members:
Name Age
James Laurie 58
Elizabeth Laurie 58, b. Peebles, Peeblesshire
Helen Laurie 26
William Laurie 20
James Wood 5


Name: James Lowrie
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Jamieson:
Event Date: 21 Nov 1824
Event Place: Peebles,Peebles,Scotland
Spouse's Father's Name: John Jamieson
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11768-7
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 1067921
Reference ID:

1861

Name: Robert McMorran
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relationship: Cousin
Gender: Male
Where born: Crawford, Lanarkshire
Registration number: 635/1
Registration district: Crawford
Civil parish: Crawford
County: Lanarkshire
Address: North Shortcleugh
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 5
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1861_94
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Gibson 21
Mary Gibson 43
Robert Gibson 10
James Gibson 13
Robert McMorran 23
Marion Veitch 50

1841

Name: Robert Mcmorran
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Carnwath
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Gadwoodend
Parish Number: 632
Household Members:
Name Age
James Mcmorran 45, Farmer
William Mcmorran 15
James Mcmorran 11
Robert Mcmorran 7
Mary Adams 15
Agnes Cunningham 20

Name: David Mcmorran
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1863
Birthplace: LISMORE,ARGYLL,SCOTLAND
Father's Name: Robert Mcmorran
Mother's Name: Elisabeth Lowrie
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11525-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516
Reference ID:

???

Name: Elizabeth Robertson
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 07 Jun 1864
Birthplace: STOW,MIDLOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Robertson
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11699-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516
Reference ID:


Name: Elizabeth Laurie
Gender: Female
Christening Place: , STOW, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1835
Birthplace: , Stow, Midlothian, Scotland
Father's Name: James Laurie
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Jamison
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11699-6
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067791
Reference ID: 2:186VGWR


Name: Robert Macmoran
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 15 Jun 1837
Christening Place: , CRAWFORD, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 29 May 1837
Father's Name: Adam Macmoran
Mother's Name: Jean Gibson
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11635-4
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1066586
Reference ID: 2:16K0CN7


If you buy credits for Scotlandspeople and look for BMDs for the above after Statutory registration began in 1855 you will be able to confirm that these are the correct people for your family.

Scottish certificates give more information than English ones. e.g. Scottish death certificates give the names of the parents of the deceased including the mother's maiden surname if the informant knows the details.

Looks as if Robert McMorran's parents didn't marry until between 1891 and 1901. And Elizabeth Scott Robertson may therefore have been illegitimate, but adopted by stepfather David after marriage.

Possible for the witness at Robert and Janet's wedding?

1901

Name: Robert Hymers
Age: 5 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1901
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Wm Hymers
Mother's Name: Maggie Hymers
Gender: Male
Where born: Edinburgh
Registration number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
Town: Edinburgh
County: Midlothian
Address: 4 Dalrymple Pl
ED: 50
Household schedule number: 15
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1901_387
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Hymers 37
Maggie Hymers 34, b. Stow, Midlothian
Eliz Hymers 3
Wm Hymers 1
Robert Hymers 5 Months
Robert Mcmorran 25, b. Galashiels, selkirkshire

Looks like Robert McMorran Hymers is a first cousin of Robert. Maggie Hymers looks to be a sister of David McMorran and that looks like his younger brother Robert living with the Hymers.

1861

Name: Robert McMorran
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth McMorran
Gender: Male
Where born: Crawford, Lanarkshire
Registration number: 525/1
Registration district: Lismore
Civil parish: Lismore
County: Argyll
Address: Fart Point
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 54
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1861_71
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert McMorran 31
Elizabeth McMorran 25
James McMorran 1

1881

Name: David McMoran
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relationship: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth McMoran
Gender: Male
Where born: Lismore, Argyleshire
Registration number: 775
Registration district: Galashiels
Civil parish: Galashiels
Town: Galashiels
County: Selkirkshire
Address: 85 Wood Street
Occupation: Millworker
ED: 10
Household schedule number: 162
Line: 11
Roll: cssct1881_313
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth McMoran 45, b. Stow, Midlothian
James McMoran 21, b. Stow, Midlothian
William McMoran 19, b. Lismore, Argyleshire
David McMoran 17
Elizabeth McMoran 15, b. Stow, Midlothian
Margaret McMoran 15 b. Stow, Midlothian
Thomas McMoran 12 b. Galashiels, Selkirkshire
John J McMoran 10 b. Galashiels, Selkirkshire
Robert McMoran 5 b. Galashiels, Selkirkshire

1871

Name: Robert Mcmorran
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth Mcmorran
Gender: Male
Where born: Crawford, Lanark
Registration number: 775/2
Registration district: Galashiels Landward
Civil parish: Galashiels
County: Selkirkshire
Address: Kilnknowe Cottage
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 61
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1871_177
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Mcmorran 40
Elizabeth Mcmorran 34
James Mcmorran 11
William Mcmorran 9
David Mcmorran 7
Elizabeth Mcmorran 5
Margaret Mcmorran 5
Thomas Mcmorran 2
John I Mcmorran 10 Mo

1881

Name: Elizabeth Robertson
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship: Grandaughter (Granddaughter) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Where born: Stow, Midlothian
Registration number: 776B
Registration district: Ladhope
Civil parish: Melrose
County: Selkirkshire
Address: 133 H Buckholmside
Occupation: Millworker
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 75
Line: 3
Roll: cssct1881_314
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Robertson 74
Elizabeth Robertson 77
Elizabeth Robertson 16

1851

Name: Richard Robertson
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Robertson
Gender: Male
Where born: Yarrow, selkirksh
Parish Number: 775
Civil parish: Galashiels
Town: Galashiels
County: Selkirkshire
Address: Tannage Street
Occupation: Masons Lab
ED: 2A
Page: 1 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 328
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1851_199
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Robertson 45
Elizabeth Robertson 44. b. Hawick
William Robertson 19
Gedion Robertson 17
Richard Robertson 14
Janet Robertson 17
Elizabeth Robertson 8
Walter Robertson 4
Malcom Cambell 19

1891

Name: Robert John McMorran
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Galashiels, Roxburghshire
Registration number: 776B
Registration district: Ladhope
Civil parish: Melrose
Town: Galashiels
County: Selkirkshire
Address: 133 Highbuckholmside
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 64
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1891_382
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Robertson 87, Former Gardener, b. Ockwood, Selkirkshire
Davie McMorran 26, Wool Carder, b. Lismore, Argyleshire
Elizabeth Robertson 25, b. Stow, Midlothian
Elizabeth Scott Robertson 5
Robert John McMorran 3

1901

Name: Robert McMorran
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: David McMorran
Mother's Name: Elizabeth McMorran
Gender: Male
Where born: Galashiels, selkirkshire
Registration number: 775
Registration district: Galashiels
Civil parish: Galashiels
Town: Galashiels
County: Selkirkshire
Address: 193, Magdala Terrace
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 24
Household schedule number: 79
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1901_419
Household Members:
Name Age
David McMorran 35, Mill Engineman, b. kilchern lesmore, Argyllshire
Elizabeth McMorran 35
Elizabeth McMorran 15
Robert McMorran 13
Maggie McMorran 8