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Thank you

Penny, I think you need to see Birth Certs...

Although there is a Baptism for 1865 Lucy, we don't have details on the other...


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(above link is useful, and free to use, but doesn't have all the answers!)


Births Sep 1897 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Mindham Alice Ida Loddon 4b 231

Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Mindham Alice Ida 0 Loddon 4b 176

(above is reference for the infant in newspaper article)


The Baptisms of Florence, Henry and Anna (Lucy as Mother) are posted earlier by Vicci, also, Annie Isabella Clarke (daughter of Alice Maria Clarke)


Obviously there is more to unravel, but with 2 girls as Lucy Melton, born around same time, Birth Certs., are really needed.

Chris :)

(if you look on google maps, you will see how near each other these parishes are, all not far from Royal Sandringham Estate, and popular Hunstanton, seaside resort)

I'm sorry I read the news about the daughter Alice Ida, but the date did not sink in properly. I was thinking she died in 1887. but I re-read it and found the date as 189. 8. I am so sorry. please disregard some of my questions. It was my mistake.

Truly I did not know anything about an Alice Ida no one in the family ever said anything. Thank you.

ok, so my Lucy Melton from Dersingham was born 1867 parents: Robert John Melton & Mary Ann (unknown). in 1871 Lucy & sister Fanny were in the workhouse. Where were the parents ? were they in the workhouse as well? then in 1881 Lucy (from Dersingham) was a domestic servant on a farm. in 1883 she married John Joseph Mindham & had 3 children. in 1891 she is listed with her sister Ann & sister's husband Jacob Hines & Ann's first daughter Ellen. From here where did my Lucy (from Dersingham) go ? I don't see a death listed any time for her. I see yoou can find a lot for the Lucy (from Docking) which is not mine.

2. how would I find a list of the people that were in the workhouse in 1871?

3. I knew nothing of the daughter Alice,(b.1887) parents: Alice Clark & John Joseph Mindham. if young children died early in those days, why would they single out these parents for a trial ?

4. now I don't understand. if Lucy was still with John Joseph in 1887 & had Henry (but Henry died same year) & if Alice & John Joseph had Alice Ida in 1887 (died 1888) then John Joseph was with 2 women at the same time? -shame on him.

what about Florence Mable (b. 1888) I thought her mother was Lucy.

Births Sep 1865 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
MELTON Lucy Docking 4b 299

(looks to be 1865 Baptism posted earlier)


Births Dec 1866 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------
Melton Lucy Docking 4b 300


(to order Certs., use below link, £9.25 each)


http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Chris:)

edits (apology to MC, who gave ordering details earlier!)

1871
DIX, John Head M 38 1833 Norfolk
DIX, Elizabeth Wife F 33 1838 Norfolk
DIX, Sarah A Daughter F 0 1871 Norfolk
METTON, Lucy Niece F 5 1866 Norfolk (Docking)
Piece: 1858
Folio: 56
Page: 1
Registration District: Docking
Civil Parish: Docking
Municipal Borough:
Address: Fakenham Road, Docking
County: Norfolk

Marriage
County Norfolk
Place Docking
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 265
MarriageDate 12 Nov 1864
GroomForename John
GroomSurname DIX
GroomAge 31
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode
BrideForename Elizabeth
BrideSurname MELTON
BrideAge 27
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename Nathaniel
GroomFatherSurname DIX
GroomFatherOccupation Shepherd
BrideFatherForename Benjamin
BrideFatherSurname MELTON
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname HART
WitnessTwoForename Ann
WitnessTwoSurname MELTON
Notes Married By Banns.father Of Groom Deceased.father Of Bride Deceased.both Witnesses Signed X


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Docking
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 1217
DateOfBirth 29 Oct 1837
BaptismDate 26 Nov 1837
Forename Elizabeth
Sex -
FatherForename Benjamin
MotherForename Lucy
FatherSurname MELTON
MotherSurname
Abode
FatherOccupation Husbandman

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Docking
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 1372
DateOfBirth 11 Dec 1840
BaptismDate 03 Jan 1841
Forename Anne
Sex -
FatherForename Benjamin
MotherForename Lucy
FatherSurname MELTON
MotherSurname
Abode
FatherOccupation Labourer

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(from above link)


1871 (other)
MELTON, Fanny Inmate F 10 1861 Norfolk (Dersingham)
MELTON, Lucy Inmate F 4 1867 Norfolk (Dersingham)
Piece: 1858
Folio: 51
Page: 28
Registration District: Docking
Civil Parish: Docking
Municipal Borough:
Address: Union Workhouse, Docking
County: Norfolk


1881
DIX, John Head Married M 48 1833 Shoemaker
Docking, Norfolk
DIX, Elizabeth Wife Married F 43 1838
Docking, Norfolk
DIX, Sarah A Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar
Docking, Norfolk
DIX, Richard Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar
Docking, Norfolk
MELTON, Lucy Niece Single F 15 1866
Docking, Norfolk
Piece: 1992
Folio: 55
Page: 1
Registration District: Docking
Civil Parish: Docking
Municipal Borough:
Address: Fakenham Rd, Docking
County: Norfolk


1881
WILSON, John Head Married M 69 1812 Farmer Of 174 Acres Emp 5 Men & 2 Boys 130 Acres Pasture
Scarning, Norfolk
WILSON, Mary Wife Married F 68 1813
Dereham East, Norfolk
MELTON, Lucy Servant Single F 14 1867 Domestic Servt
Dersingham, Norfolk
Piece: 1990
Folio: 12
Page: 18
Registration District: Docking
Civil Parish: Ringstead St Peter and St Andrew Aka Great Ringstead
Municipal Borough:
Address: East End Farm, Ringstead St Peter And St Andrew Aka Great Ringstead
County: Norfolk

Chris :)

(just trying to look back!)

if the other Lucy Melton from Docking married william charles mindham, then what happened to my Lucy Melton from Dersingham? or did I miss something. this is hard when there are 2 people the same name marrying people with same last names and born close in years and cities. wow. thank you for your help.

So where is the Lucy (daughter of Robert John melton)who married John Joseph Mindham.
I can't find marriage or death or on census after 1891 when she is with sister Ann Hines.

The reason why John Joseph didn't marry Alice until 1912 was becuase Lucy was probably still alive.

Maryb

Possibly your family??

Headline: VILLAGE NEWS.
Publication:Norfolk Chronicle
Publication date:Saturday 02 April 1898

"BROOKE:- The County Coroner (H.R Culley) held an inquest on Friday on the body of Alice Ida Mindham, aged eight months, the daughter of John Joseph Mindham, thatcher. Alice Maria Mindham, the mother, stated that the child had been delicate from birth, and died on the 19th ult. Dr. stated that death might have arisen from bronchitis. He saw nothing of a suspicious character, or anything to suggest there has been foul play. Witness did not think the parents willfully neglected their children. He believed them to be respectable. The jury returned a verdict of death from natural causes."

I can't find Alice Clarke or her siblings Florence and John on the 1891 census. Though they all show up on the 1901 census. I wonder if they were living together somewhere that's been left off the census.

Ellen Melton's mom Ann was not married when she had her & gives no dad's name.
YES

Ann Melton daughter of Robert John and MAry Ann
married Jacob Hines

2 children when unmarried

Lucy married William Mindham
Ellen married Herbert Rawling 1896


Ann with parents and sister Elizabeth in 1861

Name: Robert Melton
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Melton
Gender: Male
Where born: Docking, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Dersingham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England



Registration district: Docking
Sub-registration district: Snettisham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 83
Piece: 1249
Folio: 87
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Melton 42
Mary Ann Melton 40
Ann Melton 11
Elizabeth Melton 9
Matthew Melton 5

1. Isabella could be Annie Isabella Clark. Alice's daughter. then is it possible that Alice and John Joseph were together before the 1891 census?

Yes that seems to be the likely scenario

2. Is it possible the person who did the census put the wrong name in (Carry) instead of Alice or that Carry maybe was his pet name for Alice ?

Yes , or the enumerator misheard the name

3. Lucy's Baptism gives no father's name, but was at Docking. Is that then the other Lucy Melton or my Lucy Melton ? (if there are 2 of them).

There are 2 Lucy Melton's -

one born in Docking, mother = Ann father unknown
this one married William Mindham , they are in Snettisham in 1891 census
in 1881 this Lucy Melton is living with John and ELizabeth DIX and is listed as niece, Eliabeth's mdn was Melton

second Lucy b. Dersingham f. Robert John m. Mary Ann
married John Joseph Mindham, they are separated in 1891, the children are living with the father and "Carry"
in 1881 census living in Ringstead, Norfolk as a servant
in 1871 seems to be the workhouse in Docking

I see that Isabella could be Annie Isabella Clark. Alice's daughter. then is it possible that Alice and John Joseph were together before the 1891 census? Is it possible the person who did the census put the wrong name in (Carry) instead of Alice or that Carry maybe was his pet name for Alice ? So, Lucy's Baptism gives no father's name, but was at Docking. Is that then the other Lucy Melton or my Lucy Melton ? (if there are 2 of them). then Ellen Melton's mom Ann was not married when she had her & gives no dad's name. witnesses to John Joseph & Lucy Melton's marriage were Thomas Mindham & Frances Mindham is this his brother Thomas & Thomas' wife Frances Melton? now I'm confused on the witnesses for marriage for Jacob Hines & Ann Melton as John Dix ? and Anna Mindham ?, Thomas Mindham ? Margaret Hines ? I guess this is what family history is,"one question after another". Thank you so much for all your help

pm from Penny:

"thank you for responding. is it unusual or not to have a sister that is 20 yrs difference in age ? Penny"

Penny, no - it's not that unusual at all.

Penny, in answer to your question about certificates, they are £9.25 (inc postage worldwide) and you get them from GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

County Norfolk
Place Snettisham
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 348
MarriageDate 29 Oct 1887
GroomForename William Charles
GroomSurname MINDHAM
GroomAge 26
GroomParish Snettisham
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode
BrideForename Lucy
BrideSurname MELTON
BrideAge 22
BrideParish Snettisham
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename John
GroomFatherSurname MINDHAM
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename
BrideFatherSurname
BrideFatherOccupation
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname DIX
WitnessTwoForename Anna
WitnessTwoSurname MINDHAM

County Norfolk
Place Snettisham
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 325
MarriageDate 29 Sep 1883
GroomForename John Joseph
GroomSurname MINDHAM
GroomAge 20
GroomParish Snettisham
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode
BrideForename Lucy
BrideSurname MELTON
BrideAge 19
BrideParish Snettisham
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename Thomas
GroomFatherSurname MINDHAM
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Robert John
BrideFatherSurname MELTON
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename Thomas
WitnessOneSurname MINDHAM
WitnessTwoForename Frances
WitnessTwoSurname MINDHAM
Notes Both witnesses signed x


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Docking
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 208
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 15 Oct 1865
Forename Lucy
Sex -
FatherForename
MotherForename Ann
FatherSurname
MotherSurname MELTON
Abode
FatherOccupation

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Sedgeford
Church St. Mary the Virgin
RegisterNumber 2531
DateOfBirth 28 Jan 1872
BaptismDate 23 Jan 1885
Forename Ellen
Sex F
FatherForename
MotherForename Ann
FatherSurname
MotherSurname MELTON
Abode Sedgeford
FatherOccupation Single woman


(above from below link, can be useful Norfolk)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)


County Norfolk
Place Sedgeford
Church St. Mary the Virgin
RegisterNumber 480
MarriageDate 18 Sep 1886
GroomForename Jacob
GroomSurname HINES
GroomAge 28
GroomParish Sedgeford
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Laborer
GroomAbode Sedgeford
BrideForename Ann
BrideSurname MELTON
BrideAge 28
BrideParish Sedgeford
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Sedgeford
GroomFatherForename Robert
GroomFatherSurname HINES
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Robert
BrideFatherSurname MELTON
BrideFatherOccupation Laborer
WitnessOneForename Thomas
WitnessOneSurname MINDHAM
WitnessTwoForename Margaret
WitnessTwoSurname HINES
Notes His mark: Her mark

Marriages Sep 1886 (>99%)
HINES Jacob Docking 4b 458
MELTON Ann Docking 4b 458

1891

Name: John Mindham
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Carry Mindham - b. Dersingham AKA -Alice Maria Clarke???
Gender: Male
Where born: Snettisham

Civil parish: Thetford St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: Thetford St Peter
Town: Thetford
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Thetford
Sub-registration district: Thetford
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1577
Folio: 10
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
John Mindham 26
Carry Mindham 25
Annie Mindham 6
Mabel Mindham 3
Isabella Mindham 5 (looks like age 3 on original) >>>CLARKE Ann Isabella

Births Sep 1888 (>99%)

CLARKE Ann Isabella Docking 4b 303 S
MINDHAM Florence Mabel Docking 4b 303 S

probably the Isabella Mindham shown on the 1891 census

so maybe Carry is Alice Marie Clarke


Name: Annie Isabelle Clarke
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 07 Jul 1888
Christening Place: Snettisham, Norfolk, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice Maria Clarke
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04619-1