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pm from Gillian:

"Just to let you know that this morning I found a birth for a William Blackbird Brown born 1872 so I guess this was the Wuilliam born out of wedlock, William and Dorothy are listed as his parents."

Where were the parents listed, have you seen the actual certificate?

I would imagine that the birth certificate does not name a father but the fact that the child born in 1872 was given the middle name "Blackbird" probably indicates that his father was indeed someone with the surnname Blackbird.

This looks like the child in the 1881 census with his grandparents:-

1881 census transcription details for: 21, Railway Terrace, Heworth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 5031
Folio: 19
Page: 35
Reg. District: Gateshead
Sub District: Heworth
Parish: Heworth
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 21, Railway Terrace, Heworth
County: Durham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

BROWN, Ralph Head Married M 62 1819 Coal Miner
Bournmoor, Durham
BROWN, Isabella Wife Married F 58 1823
Newcastle, Northumberland
BROWN, John Son Single M 38 1843 Coal Miner
Newcastle, Northumberland
BROWN, Robert Son Single M 15 1866 Coal Miner
Swalwell, Durham
BROWN, William Blackbird Grand Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar
Newcastle, Northumberland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And this is Dorothy with her parents in the 1871 census:-

1871 census transcription details for: Hull Street (Empty Flat), Elswick, Newcastle

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 5082
Folio: 56
Page: 29
Reg. District: Newcastle upon Tyne
Sub District: Westgate
Parish: Elswick
Enum. District: 33
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Newcastle

Address: Hull Street (Empty Flat), Elswick, Newcastle
County: Northumberland

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
BROWN, Ralph Head M 52 1819 Codurham
BROWN, Isabella Wife F 48 1823 Northumberland
BROWN, John Son M 28 1843 Northumberland
BROWN, Ralph Son M 25 1846 Codurham
BROWN, Dorothy Daughter F 19 1852 Northumberland<<<<<<<<<
BROWN, William Son M 14 1857 Codurham
BROWN, Frances Daughter F 12 1859 Codurham
BROWN, Isabella Daughter F 8 1863 Codurham
BROWN, Robert Son M 5 1866 Codurham

Kath. x

Could this be Dorothy in the 1881 census if her first husband had died? :-

1881 census transcription details for: Ship Inn Yd, High St, Eston

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 4858
Folio: 70
Page: 17
Reg. District: Middlesbrough
Sub District: Ormesby
Parish: Eston
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: Ship Inn Yd, High St, Eston
County: Yorkshire (North riding)

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

TODD, Dorothy J Head Widow F 29 1852
Fening Down, Northumberland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
TODD, Elizabeth J Daughter Single F 4 1877
Bentrick
TODD, Isabella Daughter Single F 0 1881
Eston, Yorkshire
JONES, Elizabeth Cousin Single F 18 1863
Rosedale, Yorkshire

Kath. x

Possible death for her first husband (although in a different area but about the right sort of age):-

Name: TODD, George
Registration district: Chester Le Street
County: Durham
Year of registration: 1874
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 24
Volume no: 10A
Page no: 367

EDIT - THIS DEATH IS WRONG AS DOROTHY DIDN'T MARRY GEORGE TODD UNTIL 1876.

Kath. x

That's a possible Kath. In 1881 her son is in Heworth which isn't too far from Chester-le-Street.

If it were her husband's death then she must have had the child to William Blackbird whilst still married to Todd, perhaps estranged?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Blackbird Brown
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1872
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 24

Just realised that the marriage to Todd wasn't until 1876 so the death I posted was wrong:-

Name: BROWN, Dorothy Jane
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1876 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 11

MarriageFinder: Dorothy Jane Brown married one of the following people:

TODD, George<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WATT, Francis William C
WOOD, Christina

Kath. x

Even more information, thank you so much x.

Right, this is what I have determined, I think.
Dorothy Jane Brown born 1852 had child out of wedlock with William Blackbird in 1872, she married GEORGE tODD IN 1876 HAD CHILD 1877 eLIZABETH j tODD, gEORGE tODD HAD A DAUGHTER iSABELLA IN 1880 WITH a.n. oTHER, DIED 1880 OR 1881, dOROTHY MARRIED rOBERT hUNTER IN 1883. sORRY ABOUT CAPS. RUSHING XX

So sorry about last message being in CAPS, grand sons birthday plus helping son organise his wedding and phone is going mental, hope it makes sense. Poor Dorothy or what, child out of wedlock and looks like husband played away and then hopefully found happiness with Robert Hunter, searching for Info on him but it's not important x x Thank you one and all for your valued help x.

One can usually resolve who wed whom pre-1912 if a local index is available. Some are online - see:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

Drill down thru http://www.northeastbmd.org.uk/ to:
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/your-council/register-office


Please be aware that our indexes sometimes display additional entries when displaying spouse details.
This may be because an individual was using more than one surname at the time of the marriage.
Another reason may be because some entries have been entered into the system using a "page number" rather than "entry number." There is more than 1 entry on a page.

1876 BROWN Dorothy J
Marriage venue - St Paul, Elswick
Register No./Entry No. [Page # here]
EPA2/63

so there's no help here - sometimes when only page #s are used, the pages are misaligned with the GRO index. that would have resolved things here, but they're not misaligned.


1883 BROWN Dorothy J
1883 TODD Dorothy J
1883 HUNTER Robert
Marriage venue - St Paul, Elswick
Register No./Entry No.
EPA2/377
[any # over 100 will be an entry #, and 377 > 100, so both names are there and indexed for Dorothy]

EDIT - should have said over 250, as 100 is just for births & deaths.


1888 BLACKBIRD Jane
1888 BAGGOTT Henry
Marriage venue - St John the Baptist
Register No./Entry No.
EJD39/439



Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)
Blackbird William 72 Gateshead 10a 1089

Now if I click on the "Gateshead" link in that FreeBMD hit, then the more info "here" link, I get to see the parishes, etc in Gateshead RD. Whickham and Winlaton were 2 that were mentioned in census header info.
If you don't know where they were, there's a map of 1850s parishes at
http://maps.familysearch.org/
Click on Durham, then list the parishes, then Whickham.
In the left col, there's a "Layers" tab that lets you overlay the civil rego district.
(Winlaton's the next psh, to the W.)

Now go to:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
The collection we're interested in now is:
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

I searched for Blackbird in Winlaton - no Winlaton hits (no Winlaton hits in the marr collection either). Same result for Smith, so my guess is they've not transcribed Winlaton yet

Here's Blackbird in Whickham:

Matthew Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 13 Aug 1797 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Mary

Jane Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 21 May 1799
christening 28 Jul 1799 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Mary Smiles

Mary Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 28 Dec 1801
christening 28 Feb 1802 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Mary Smailes

Elizabeth Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 29 Sep 1805
christening 06 Apr 1806 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Mary Smailes

William Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 06 Oct 1808
christening 02 Apr 1809 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Mary Smiles



William Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 24 Apr 1820
christening 21 May 1820 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

Alice Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 01 Jan 1822
christening 10 Mar 1822 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

Mary Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 01 Nov 1823
christening 07 Dec 1823 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

Isabella Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth 25 Dec 1826
christening 24 Jun 1827 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

Elizabeth Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 27 Oct 1830 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

Jane Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 06 Nov 1836 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMTT-C9N
[11 of 357 - Keelman of Derwenthaugh]

Edward Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 25 Apr 1841 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella

William Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 25 Apr 1841 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella



Mary Jane Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 26 May 1852 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Isabella Blackbird

Alice Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 11 Feb 1857 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Isabella Blackbird

Edward Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 20 Apr 1864 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Isabella Blackbird



Jane Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 01 Apr 1866 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Ann

Sarah Ann Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 23 Nov 1873 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent William Blackbird, Mary Ann




Lets look at:
Jane Blackbird
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening 06 Nov 1836 WHICKHAM,DURHAM,ENGLAND
parent Matthew Blackbird, Isabella
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMTT-C9N

I've appended the URL for the transcription.

Now there's no free image online of the Old Parish Registers, but the Bishops Transcripts are online (but unindexed).
[The BTs are the church's own backup copy of the OPRs.]
The collection at FS is:
England, Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts ca., 1700-1900

So for June, drill down to:
Durham > Whickham > 1835-1853 - you want image 11 (of 357)
It says Matthew is a Keelman with abode=Derwenthaugh

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2829001

I'll leave the remaining names with you, and the unindexed Winlaton BTs.