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Hi Barbara,

You say that Thomas James Wynne's father was called James a Labourer.
Thomas James Wharton's father was also called James and a Farm Labourer.

From the evidence on the census records, I still think that Thomas James Wynne, is in fact Thomas James Wharton, and that he changed his name when he joined the army (for what reason, I cannot tell).

I will have a look and see if I can find him in 1881 census.
Fingers crossed.
Catherine

From February 12, 1874, to November 14, 1884. the 13th Hussars served in India and Afghanistan, so Thomas would be overseas in 1881 census if he was already in the army.
In 1884 the regiment was sent to Cape Colony in South Africa before returning to England.
On November 4th the regiment arrived at Portsmouth, and the headquarters under Colonel Gifford proceeded to Norwich. The D and E Troops under the command of Major Stevenson, consisting of 4 officers and l00 non-commissioned officers and men, proceeded to Colchester.

This would coincide nicely with the marriage in 1886 in Colchester.

They also served in South Africa from 1899 to 1901 so that is why he probably wasn't with the family in either census.

Find my past have quite a lot of army records, so it could be a good idea to check the site out to see if they have any records on Thomas.

Congratulations Catherine on a wonderful bit of Research.

Sappho.

OH!
Thank you Sappho, it's not very often you get a congratulations.
:-D
May I wish you a very Merry Christmas.
Catherine

Could this be him in 1881 although the place of bithy does not look right?

1881 England Census
about Thomas Wynn
Name: Thomas Wynn
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Gender: Male
Where born: Grimsby, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: Aldershot
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: "1st Battalion 2nd Queens Royal Regimemt"
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Private 1/2nd Regiment

Registration district: Farnham
Sub-registration district: Frimley
ED, institution, or vessel: First Battalion 2nd Queens Royal Regiment

Oh Catherine, what a star you are! All that info on him in the Army. Can you find out when he joined the army? and also when he died? I can see what you mean about Wynne and Wharton being the same person, especially as the fathers have the same christian name and job. What we don't know is whether he was born Wharton and changed his name to Wynne or the other way round. However, on his marriage certificate is says his fathers' name is James Wynne. Maybe they both changed their names!! :-D Kind Regards, Barbara

Hi Barbara,
I do believe that Thomas was born Thomas James Wharton. The nearest death that I can find is the one I posted on the previous page:-

Name: Thomas J Wharton
Birth Date: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1927
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 232

Unfortunately the only way to find out if it is him is to buy a copy of the death certificate, but there are no guarantees and at £9.25 a time it's a lot of money to waste if it turns out not to be him.

However, I did a search for Thomas J. Wharton born anywhere in the country between 1859 and 1862 and this is the only birth to come up:-

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
WHARTON Thomas James Headington 3a 541
The district Headington spans the boundaries of the counties of Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire

..........which corresponds to the Thomas in the census records that I have already posted whose parents are James and Emma so it does look to be your man.

Whether you take the chance and buy the death cert. is up to you I wouldn't want you to spend money just on my say so.

I believe that army records are kept at the National Archives in Kew so you could always try contacting them to see if they could advise you on how to find the records for Thomas, (although I suspect that you will have to go there in person to find them yourself), if you can't find someone with an account on Find my Past who would be willing to do a look up on there, but don't forget that any army records will certainly be under the name of Wynne and not Wharton.

For further info on the 13th Hussars check this site out:-

http://pinetreeweb.com/13th-afghan-war.htm

Hi Catherine. I have ordered the birth and death certificates as you suggested. Will keep you posted when they arrive. Still can't understand why on his marriage certificate his and his father's names are Wynn, when he was born Wharton and his father was also Wharton. Something funny going on here I think.... I will certainly have a look at the web site you suggest. Many thanks for your help. Kind Regards, Barbara :-)

nnnnnnnnnn

Have Copied and pasted relevant details from other thread to keep in one place
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1315849

Barbara Report 15 Dec 2012 19:09
Hi everyone, Can anyone tell me which is the best web site to look on for army records please. The Person I am looking for is Thomas James Wharton (alias Wynne which is probably what any army records name will be in). He was in the
13th Hussars.

George_of_Westbury Report 15 Dec 2012 22:45
British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription
First name(s): Thomas ?Last name: WYNNE
Calculated year of birth: 1859
Parish of birth: Wheatley
Town of birth: Oxford ?
County of birth: Oxfordshire ?
Age at attestation: 21 years
Attestation date: 28 February 1880
Attestation corps: 13th Hussars Attestation soldier number: 1947
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps:
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97 / 4223 / 150 ??
There are five pages to this record.

Stuart report 15 Dec 2012
From record that George found.
Shoeing Smith by trade.?
Discharged as Farrier Sergeant Feb 1892 at Cork
Served
Home 26 Feb 1880 - 13 Dec 1880
East Indies 14 Dec 1880 - 25 MAr 1881
S. Afghanistan 26 Mar 1881 - 7 Nov 1881
East Indies 8 Nov 1881 - 13 Nov 1884
South Africa 14 Nov 1884 - 4 Nov 1885
Home 5 Nov 1885 - 25 Feb 1892
NoK at attestation - Parents James and Emma, brother William, Sister Teresa - of Staunton St John, Wheatley, Nr Oxford?
Married to Lily Maria Latham. Colchester. 15th November 1886

Thankyou very much Stuart and George. The information was most helpful. Kind Regards, Barbara

Wow!
He left the army on the 25th Feb 1992, that would make him 133 years old, what an acheivement!
However, army records does seem to confirm that I had the correct family so that's good news!
:-D

Stand corrected - served to 1892

???

Marriages Mar 1854
Brown Fanny Henley 3a 557
>>GRAY Emma Thame 3a 557
Sparks Martha Hemel Hempstead 3a 557
>>Wharton James Thame 3a 557

Thame covers Chalgrove, where Emma Wharton was born according to census 1861

Birth (Find My Past)

Name: WYNNE, William T J
Mother's name: Not available before 1966
Regiment:13th Hussars
Place : Maryhill
Country: Scotland
Year: 1889
Volume : 276
Page: 45
Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)

(wondered if above fitted in anywhere?)

Chris :)


1911
WHARTON, James Head Married M 80 1831 Farm Labourer Retired Stanton St John Oxford
WHARTON, Emma Wife Married57 years F 79 1832 Chalgrove Oxford
WHARTON, William Grandson Single M 21 1890 Horseman On Farm Maryhill Glasgow
RG number: RG14
Piece: 8110
Reference: RG14PN8110 RG78PN411 RD152 SD1 ED5 SN53
Registration District: Headington
Sub District: Wheatley
Enumeration District: 5
Parish: Stanton St John
Address: Stanton St John Near Oxford
County: Oxfordshire


Death?
Name: WHARTON, William J T
Registration district: [?] Wokingham
County: Berkshire
Year of registration: 1953
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:64
Volume no: 6A
Page no: 192


Name: William Thomas James Wharton
Probate Date: 14 Sep 1954
Death Date: 29 Oct 1953
Death Place: Reading
Registry: Oxfordshire, England
(of Maiden Erlegh Stud, Earley, Reading. Administration to James Frank Wharton van driver. Effects £1167 18s 2d

Thankyou everyone for all your help. I have now found new living relatives in Canada. Ruby Wharton, who was a daughter of Thomas James Wharton/Wynne and Lily Maria Lathan, married Frederick J Coppock and it is through this marriage that I am related to the family in Canada! Thankyou Catherine for letting me have the name of the person whose tree you found the photo of Thomas in. Brilliant isn't it? Kind Regards, Barbara

Harry George Obie Wharton was my uncle by marriage. I never found out why his father went by two surnames, but I do know that Thomas is buried in the Eastfield road cemetery in Peterborough. A real coincidence as that us where I grew up! No idea what he was doing there though. Obie still has one child living, my cousin Una in her 80's but she can't help either. Obie was a lovely man who worked all his life with horses. He was head groom at Coton House nr Rugby for Mrs Arthur James (the Queen Mums godmother), served in WW1 as Sgt. Farrier and spent his last years as stud groom for the Hon Mrs Beatty at Maiden Erlegh stud near Reading. He was married to my aunt Marjorie Annie Hirons with 3 children, then after her death to Evelyn Dugan.
Wish I could be more help but hope this puts a face to Obie. I did meet his brother Bill a few times who I remember lived in Bicester.

Service record images sent to Barbara