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Hi can anyone do me a death lookup please for Thomas James Wynne. He married Lily Lathan on the 15/Nov/1886. He was born about 1859 and was in the 13th Hussars. He was married in Colchester and the certificate says he was in barracks at the time of the marriage and aged 27. I also know he was in Scotland while in the 13th Hussars but I can find no record of his death. Many thanks, Barbara

Have you found him on any census after his marriage ?

When and where did his wife die ?

For ref

1891 Scotland Census
about Thomas Wynne
Name: Thomas Wynne
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Lily Wynne
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration number: 692/2
Registration district: Leith South
Civil parish: Leith South
County: Midlothian
Address: Piershill - Jocks Lodge So Leith
Occupation: Sergeant 13 Hussars
ED: Cavalry Barracks
Household schedule number: 1
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1891_367
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Wynne 33
Lily Wynne 26
Emma Wynne 4
William Wynne 1
Francis McManus 29
George Smith 26




Andy

Do you have the marriage certificate of any of his children?

If he is noted as deceased, then you know he died before the date of the marriage, if not, then you know he died after the date of the marriage, which may help find, or confirm a possible death record.

I was trying to find the family in 1901 and came accross a tree on ancestry that seems to have this family but there is a lot of conflicting information:-

Thomas James Wharton
Birth Mar 1860 in Headington, Oxfordshire, England
Death

Lillian Maria Lathan
Birth 1859 in Dereham, Norfolk, England
Death 11 Jul 1937 in Stanton St. John Oxfordshire, England


Note daughter Emma form 1891 census:-

Emma Bessie Maria Wharton (AKA Wynne)
Birth 19 Feb 1887 in Colchester, Essex, England
Death 14 Sept 1937 in Derby Road, Reading, Berkshire, England

.......but they don't have son William noted as child, but they do have the following as other children:-

Ruby Florence Beatrice Wharton 1893 – 1935
Thirza Emily Ellen Wharton 1895 – 1945
Harry Wharton 1897 –
Frank John Wharton 1899 – 1977

They also have a photo of Thomas in uniform, so don't really know what to think of it?

Do you know if your Thomas had any other children apart form Emma and William that show in the 1891 census?

The 13th Hussars served in the 1899-1901 Boer War, so possible he died then?

this looks to be the family from the ancestry tree in 1901:-

1901 England Census about Lily Wharton
Name: Lily Wharton
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wynns Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Dereham, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Stanton St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
Town: Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Occupation: Charwoman

Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 60
Piece: 1377
Folio: 33
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Walker 70
Mary Walker 64

Lily Wharton 40 -
Ruby Wharton 6
Thersa Wharton 5
Harry Wharton 3
Frank Wharton 4

.............do you have your family in 1901?

Same family in 1911:-

WHARTON, Lily Bessie Maria Head Married F 48 1863 Charwoman India Calcutta Resident VIEW
WHARTON, Harry George Obi Son M 13 1898 Farm Labourer Oxfordshire Stanton St John VIEW
WHARTON, Frank John Son M 11 1900 School Boy Oxfordshire Stanton St John VIEW

RG number: RG14 Piece: 8110 Reference: RG14PN8110 RG78PN411 RD152 SD1 ED5 SN17 Registration District: Headington Sub District: Wheatley Enumeration District: 5 Parish: Stanton St John Address: Stanton St John Near Oxford County: Oxfordshire

Lily is noted as being Widow, but this is crossed out and Married noted in its place.
Married for 22 years (so that makes 1889) and as having 6 children, all living.

Also from the ancestry tree:-

Ruby Florence Beatrice Wharton
Birth 28 Nov 1893 in Calcutta, West Bengal, India
Death 1 Aug 1935 in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

As the 13th Hussars served also in India, it is also possible that Thomas died in India and his wife remarried over there to someone called Wharton ?

Found this on familysearch:-

Harry Whartonwynne in household of Harry Whartonwynne, "England and Wales Census, 1901"

name: Harry Whartonwynne
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 3
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: Stanton St John, Oxfordshire
record type: Household
registration district: Headington
sub-district: Wheatley
ecclesiastical parish: John The Baptist
civil parish: Stanton St John
county: Oxfordshire
Citing this Record

"England and Wales Census, 1901," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X9YK-KSJ : accessed 10 Dec 2012), Harry Whartonwynne, Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England; citing (http://Findmypast.co.uk : 2011); PRO RG 13, county, Headington registration district, Wheatley subdistrict, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.


............so looked at the original copy of the 1901 census and Lily's name is noted as being Wharton Wynne, as are all the children with her, so it does look to be the correct family.

Wondered where son William from 1891 census was in 1901 so had a look and found this, which could very well be him?

1901 England Census about William J Wharton
Name: William J Wharton
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Scotland
Civil parish: Stanton St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
Town: Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 1377
Folio: 30
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wharton 69
Emma Wharton 69
Job Wharton 43
Cain Wharton 27
William J Wharton 11

................born in Scotland and living in the same area as the other family in 1901!

Same family in 1861:-

1861 England Census about Thomas J Wharton
Name: Thomas J Wharton
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Wharton
Mother's Name: Emma Wharton
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: Stanton Oxford St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 54
Piece: 889
Folio: 72
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wharton 29
Emma Wharton 29
William Wharton 7
Henry Wharton 5
Job Wharton 3
Thomas J Wharton 1

...........and there is a son Thomas J. Wharton?

I wonder?

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006 about Thomas J Wharton
Name: Thomas J Wharton
Birth Date: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1927
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 232

Hi everyone, Many thanks for your swift replies.There are a couple more details. Lily's children are named Wharton so I was wondering whether T J Wynne died and she married T J Wharton?
I have endeavoured to answer your questions below.
I have not found him on any census after his marriage. Lily died on 11th July 1937 in Stanton St. John, Oxfordshire. Her surname at the time was Wharton. Please can you tell me Catherine, what the tree name on ancestry was where you found the photo of Thomas.No, I don't have any marriage certificates of any of his children. Kind regards, Barbara

Son William was born as William Wynn.
Birth registered in 1899 Maryhill, Lanarkshire
( There were Army Barracks in Maryhill)

Only death that I could find:
Thomas Wynne age 53. Death registered in Liberton, Midlothian 1908.

Do you know his mother's maiden name?


Anne

I was wondering if Thomas J. Wharton and Thomas J. Wynne are in deed one in the same person.
It would be interesting to know when Thomas joined the army?
My thinking is that Thomas J. Wharton may have changed his name when he joined the army for one reason or another. Perhaps his family disaproved, or he was too young? It wouldn't be the first time that this has happened.

Family Tree is owned by:- Owner: DonHalbert54

They also have a photo of Lillian Maria Lathan, daughter Ruby and all of Ruby's family.

Just in case, this is the 1861 family in 1871:-

1871 England Census about Thomas Wharton
Name: Thomas Wharton
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Ames Wharton
Mother's Name: Emma Wharton
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: Stanton St John
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanton St John
Town: Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 47
Piece: 1433
Folio: 72
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Ames Wharton 39 (Agr. Lab. Engineman)
Emma Wharton 39
William Wharton 17
Henry Wharton 15
Job Wharton 12
Thomas Wharton 11
Thirza Wharton 9
Harriett Wharton 6
Emily Wharton 2
Eleanor Wharton 5 Months
.........................................................

What you really need is to buy a copy of James and Lily's marriage certificate to see what he gives as his father's name and occupation.

1881, no sign of Thomas:-

1881 England Census about James Wharton
Name: James Wharton
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Wharton
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Stanton St John Village
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Ag Lab
Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1495
Folio: 67
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wharton 49
Emma Wharton 49
Job Wharton 21
Emily Wharton 11
Helena Wharton 9
Cain Wharton 7

...............so you need to find him in 1881!
....................................................................................................

1891 England Census about James Wharton
Name: James Wharton
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Wharton
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: Stanton St John
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanton St John
Town: Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation: Farm Labourer

Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1162
Folio: 50
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wharton 60
Emma Wharton 59
Harriet Wharton 26
Cain Wharton 16

1911 is interesting.
Shows William Wharton born in Maryhill, Scotland (which would fit with the birth of William Wynn)- Grandson, living with James and Emma Wharton:-

1911 England Census about William Wharton
Name: William Wharton
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Maryhill Glasgow
Civil parish: Forest Hill with Shotover and Stanton St John
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Stanton St John Near Oxford Oxon
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Horseman On Farm
Registration district: Headington
Registration District Number: 152
Sub-registration district: Wheatley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 53
Piece: 8110
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wharton 80
Emma Wharton 79
William Wharton 21

Couple married for 57yrs. (10 children, 7 living and 3 died)

...............this does seem to confirm that we are looking at the correct family.

Oh dear this is so confusing! No, Anne I don't know Thomas Wynne's mothers maiden name as I can't find his birth certificate either as Wynne or Wharton. I do have his marriage certificate to Lily Maria Lathan as Thomas James Wynne on the 15th November 1886 when he was 27 and Lily was 26. It states that Thomas was a sergeant in the 13th Hussars and was living in barracks. The wedding took place at St. Giles, Colchester, Essex. Thomas's father was James Wynne and his father was a labourer. Kind Regards, Barbara

Sorry Catherine, I don't know when Thomas Wynne joined the army. Not sure where to find that out. Not sure they are the same person as Thomas James Wynne's father is James Wynne and he is a labourer. It's all very strange. Thanks for the name of the person who owns the tree with the photos. I will contact him. Perhaps Thomas had already left home in 1881 and 1891 as he got married to Lily in 1886? I can't find him anywhere on the 1881 census. Perhaps he was abroad?I think somewhere along the line I read that he was in Afghanistan. If so, where do I look? Kind Regards, Barbara