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And again!

Name: Vera P Burlefinger
Spouse Surname: Gulliford
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1952
Registration district: Southampton
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1191

Name: Vera P Gulliford
Spouse: Green
Marriage: Dec 1983 - Southampton, Hampshire

Blimey.

Jan

Thanks (again !) for FMP look up. Have got the Naval records mentioned by Chris and will order the Watkins in Bromley death certificate this afternoon.

Having read about the history of the Stoke Newington area, I wonder if Veronica could have been Jewish? Would this mean records are stored differently and or is a change of name likely?

Eleanor, if another religion then the religious info would be different, but the civil registration records would be the same.
Jan

1911 Census RecordPersonal Information
Name William Watkins
Relationship to Head of Household Inmate
Gender M
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1905
Occupation Inmate
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth London Woolwich
Enumerator Information
Address Ashley Down Brstol
Parish Bristol
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN15092 RD319 SD8 ED35 SN9999
Administrative County Gloucestershire
Registration District Bristol
Registration Sub District Ashley
Enumeration District 35
Reference Information
Folio 115
Page 25
Piece 15092
RD number 319
SD number 8
ED number 35
Schedule 9999

Thank-you PollyPoppet. I do have this census info and from it I was able to order records from Muller's Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, Bristol. If there are any Watkins relatives reading this, I am happy to forward copies of the above records for Elizabeth Winifred Watkins (17/10/1899), Effie Caroline Watkins (4/06/1901) and my grandfather William. They do not give any real details about the children, but I found them fascinating and poignant reading.

Thanks again to everyone who has been so helpful and interested in my search! I'll keep you posted!

just daft thing could have veronica been a middle name she used
PP x

Oh this is a toughy!


I'd be inclined to go for the suggestion that Mary posed and try that death cert

I guess 'Veronica' could have been an assumed name, or maybe she was taken in by another family........arghhhhh :-|

Please come back when you get the death certificate!

Hello Eleanor

I am intrigued by your father's birth certificate - particularly the two addresses shown - one for where your father was born (Tudor House) and another for his father's residence (Burma Road) - I presume as the informant?

You might find this link interesting (or it might raise more questions)

http://www.islington.gov.uk/publicrecords/documents/LeisureandCulture/Pdf/lhcwalks_mildmay.pdf


This is the excerpt

On the lhs stands Tudor Court, built in the 1950’s on the site of two 19th century almshouses. The first
was designed for the Tylers’ & Bricklayers’ Co. by William Grellier in 1836 and in 1841 the Dyers’
Company added a further building to the site . The buildings were demolished in the 1930’s

It is possible the local history society may have more information on Tudor House and what it was used for in 1930's - prior to being demolished.

EDIT: If Tudor House was part of Mildmay Memorial Hospital then this link might be useful
http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/alphabeticallist.html

Also National Archives retain some documents from Mildmay Memorial Hospital, but only Council Minutes. It might help to prove if Veronica was there as a TB patient rather than for maternity reasons.

There is this Beddington birth - but she would be very young in 1936 (assuming no corresponding death)!

Name: BEDDINGTON, Female (unnamed)
Mother's name: Not available before 1966
Consulate : Shanghai
Country: China
Year: 1921-1925
Volume : 16
Page: 213
Record source: GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)

There are quite a few births registered from Tudor House when you google it,but i have found nowhere where it says it was a hospital etc.

Maryb.

Just another thought. Are you in contact with other descendents of Elizabeth and Effie Watkins? A long shot but sometimes family stories are passed down, and if you are very lucky, there might be a clue or two. Clutching at straws I know! It occurs to me because my father was orphaned when he was 10, and all contact with one branch of his family was lost. However, when I found family members (some 70 years after this!) they knew the story of the orphaned children. So you never know.

Effie's details if you don't have them - there seem to be a few possible offspring to both these marriages:

Name: Effie C Watkins
Spouse: Ansell
Marriage: Mar 1923 - Bristol, Gloucestershire, Somerset
Other: QJan-Jan-Feb-Mar 1923

Name: Effie C Ansell
Spouse Surname: Gaule
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Registration district: Wantage
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 978

Name: Effie Caroline Gaule
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1901
Date of Registration: Sep 1993
Age at Death: 92
Registration district: Abingdon
Inferred County: Berkshire, Oxfordshire
Register Number: 20B
District and Subdistrict: 6971
Entry number: 247

Jan

Hi Maryb

I agree, so I "trawled" around the area a bit and found the (potential) Mildmay connection (but am not 100% convinced), I also thought about the places people might be born - example, my g.grandparents and grandparents were at private addresses, my parents (1930's) in the local hospital. So as it was 1936 it seems like it could be a hospital - or I wonder if there was some convalescing aspect to Tudor House in the 1930's. Still intrigued as Burma Road is not far from Newington Green, so my question is why at Tudor House and not at home in Burma Road - or a hospital that is definitely a hospital. Anything for a clue!

Janet

Now I am considering a China Connection.

I did an address search on Newington Green (1911, early I know) but this shows up at the back of No 44 and at No 45 - I think it is China Inland Missions Home

RG number: RG14 Piece: 977 Reference: RG14PN977 RG78PN33 RD10 SD7 ED8 SN2 Registration District: Islington Sub District: Highbury Enumeration District: 8 Parish: Islington Address: B Chian Inland Missions Home 44 Newington Green County: London

So, (just a theory) take the Beddington Shanghai birth in 1921-1925 and the 1911 connection to China in the Mission at Newington Green, if it was still operating similarly in the 1930s, perhaps the unnamed female Beddington was Veronica who married William Watkins (perhaps abroad/at sea?) and had connections to the Mission Home.

Wonder if there are any Mission Home records..........

EDIT: Lots about China Mission Home on Wikipedia - OMF International (formerly Overseas Missionary Fellowship and before 1964 the China Inland Mission) - one interesting point in 1930's: Headquarters in Shanghai move to Sinza Road in 1930 (??Shanhai connection). OMF International have a website - they may have old records?

Any good??

China Inland Mission Reports

http://divdl.library.yale.edu/missionperiodicals/viewdetail.aspx?id=278

Publisher: The China Inland


Regards Vera

(just adding below, for some info. on Flemings, as they seemed to be in the picture!)

1911

FLEMING, Edith E Wife Married F 32 1879 Newcastle Northd
FLEMING, Ellen E Daughter F 6 1905 School Mitcham Surrey
FLEMING, John H Son M 2 1909 Woodford Essex
EVERETT, Joseph Visitor Married M 62 1849 Pastor Baptist City of London
RG number: RG14
Piece: 10560
Reference: RG14PN10560 RG78PN566 RD205 SD4 ED5 SN142
Registration District: Sudbury
Sub District: Melford
Enumeration District: 5
Parish: Glemsford
Address: Seldon Waver Glemsford Suffolk
County: Suffolk

(signed by Edith, for Walter H Fleming)


(1911 has Walter Howard Fleming, Chelsea)


(Outgoing Passengers)

Mr W H FLEMMING
Date of departure: 6 September 1939
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: Cape, South Africa
Passenger destination: Cape, South Africa
Date of Birth: 1873 (calculated from age)
Age: 66
Marital status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Missionary (c/o SBSA) EC
Passenger recorded on: Page 12 of 23
Mrs FLEMMING Page 12 of 23
Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
STIRLING CASTLE
164570
Captain H R Northwood
Union-Castle Line
South Africa
25550
706

Death

Name: FLEMING, Walter H
Registration district: [?] Sudbury
County: Suffolk
Year of registration: 1954
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death:85
Volume no: 4B
Page no: 1161

(of Hatherley cottage, Preston, Sudbury. Probate to son John Hadley Fleming, Cinema Projectionist)


Death

Name: FLEMING, Edith E
Registration district: [?] Sudbury
County: Suffolk
Year of registration: 1964
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death:85
Volume no: 4B
Page no: 494


Marriages Dec 1933 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
FLEMING John H Irving Lambeth 1d 656
Irving Alice L Fleming Lambeth 1d 656

(as the couple with William Frederick, Electoral postings earlier)


Marriages Sep 1933 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Fleming Ellen E Reid Cosford 4a 2813
Reid Bertram J Fleming Cosford 4a 2813

(could this be the Bertie Reid and John Hadley Flemings sister?)


Name Reid, Bertram Joseph (Navy Record)
Official Number: J105954
Place of Birth: Clapham, Surrey
Date 08 February 1906
Catalogue reference ADM 188/858

(and above, Bertie, the Naval friend!)


and lastly, a bit from Glemsford Suffolk War Memorial (this is Joseph who is with John and Mother on 1911)

On November 5th 1922 at 10.45a.m., Armistice Day, there was an open-air service on Tye Green, Glemsford conducted by the Rev. Joseph Everett (from the Ebenezer Chapel)


(bit long winded, but just wondered if any names were familiar, and again Suffolk connection!)...

Chris :)

Hello Chris

Lots of info for Eleanor to look at - interesting that there are pastor and missionary connections with the Suffolk connections!

Janet

EDIT: Just done a google search 'fleming + missionary' - got this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Protestant_missionaries_in_China

Which includes a William S Fleming (China Inland Mission) - there is also a Henry REID ( they may have no connection but the names are re-occurring)

wonder if this is linked to the birth in Shanghai

passenger transcript details
Name: Carol BEDDINGTON
Date of departure: 10 October 1924
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Shanghai, China
Passenger destination: Shanghai, China
Date of Birth: 1922 (calculated from age)
Age: 2
Marital status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: Infant
Passenger recorded on: Page 9 of 12

The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Mr John Louis BEDDINGTON
Mrs Olivia BEDDINGTON

Ship: MANTUA
Official Number: 127544
Master's name: L D Oinckney
Steamship Line: Peninsular And Oriental Steam Navigation Co.
Where bound: Kobe, Japan
Square feet: 5889.13
Registered tonnage: 315
Passengers on voyage:


passenger transcript details
Name: Mr John Louis BEDDINGTON
Date of departure: 10 October 1924
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Shanghai, China
Passenger destination: Shanghai, China
Date of Birth: 1893 (calculated from age)
Age: 31
Marital status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Merchant
Passenger recorded on: Page 9 of 12

passenger transcript details
Name: Mrs Olivia BEDDINGTON
Date of departure: 10 October 1924
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Shanghai, China
Passenger destination: Shanghai, China
Date of Birth: 1898 (calculated from age)
Age: 26
Marital status: Married
Sex: Female
Occupation:
Passenger recorded on: Page 9 of 12

Just in case...

MarriageFinder™: John L Beddington married Olivia N Streatfield [?]
Name: BEDDINGTON, John L
Registration district: [?] Kensington
County: London
Year of registration: 1918
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name Streatfield
Volume no: [?] 1A
Page no: [?] 265

Ref Tempest's find....
Marriages Mar 1918 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>Beddington John L Streatfield Kensington 1a 265
Daniell Joan Babington Kensington 1a 265
Dean Frederick J Milton Kensington 1a 265
Martin Alice E Langley Kensington 1a 265
Milton Lizzie Dean Kensington 1a 265
>>>>>STREATFIELD Olivia M Beddington Kensington 1a 265


1901

BEDDINGTON, Charles L Head Married M 34 1867 Stock Exchange
London VIEW
BEDDINGTON, Stella A Wife Married F 29 1872
London VIEW
BEDDINGTON, Jack L Son Single M 8 1893
London VIEW
BEDDINGTON, Frederick B Son Single M 4 1897
London VIEW
BIGGS, Isabelle Nurse Single F 36 1865
Wolverton, Buckinghamshire VIEW
COLLARD, Harriet A Nurse Single F 21 1880 Domestic Nurse
Upton Park, Essex VIEW
WARD, Annie G Servant Single F 28 1873 Domestic Servant
Durragh Camp Dublin Ire VIEW
PAGE, Fanny Servant Single F 23 1878 Domestic Servant
Worcester VIEW
SYMES, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 Domestic Servant
Brookend, Oxfordshire VIEW
HUTCHINGS, Susan Servant Single F 40 1861 Domestic Servant
Hinton St George, Somersetshire VIEW


In 1911 he is in Wellington college berkshire


regards vera

1911
Relation Condition /
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where born Image
STREATFIELD, Arthur Newton Head Married M 52 1859 Secretary Carlton Club Hampshire Brown Candover VIEW
STREATFIELD, Flora Wife Married23 years F 50 1861 London St Pauls Knightsbridge VIEW
STREATFIELD, Newton Son Single M 22 1889 Articled Clerk To Solicitors London St Gabriels Pimlico VIEW
STREATFIELD, Sylvia Ruth Daughter Single F 21 1890 Independent London St Gabriels Pimlico VIEW
STREATFIELD, Olivia Margaret Daughter Single F 13 1898 London St Gabriels Pimlico VIEW
SHANNON, Julia Ann Servant Married26 years F 45 1866 Cook Domestic London Chelsea VIEW
SHANNON, Julia Eva Servant Single F 21 1890 Under Housemaid Domestic London Chelsea VIEW
MACKRORY, Alice Margaret Servant Single F 30 1881 Housemaid Domestic Bucks Eton VIEW
ROE, Ethel Servant Single F 35 1876 Nurse Domestic London Clapham VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 455
Reference: RG14PN455 RG78PN15 RD5 SD2 ED23 SN187
Registration District: St George
Sub District: Belgrave
Enumeration District: 23
Parish: St George Hanover Square
Address: 47 Gloucester St SW
County: London



regards vera