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This could be Mary Ann Eliza's daughter (probable half-sister of Eliza)

Henrietta Steele - born about 1870 - died Ap-Jun 1888 - Poplar


If so, she should be on the 1881 census, but I can't find her either.

No - annoying isn't it, MaureeninNY had tried and like you found Henrietta, I tried, and like you found nothing, think I have found a possible birth for her

Civil registration event: Birth

Name:STEELE, Henrietta
Registration district: [?]Poplar
County:London
Year of registration:1870
Quarter of registration:Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name:Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no:[?] 1C
Page no:[?]655

There is another possible in Portsea Island, same year, but is Henrietta Maria, so have noted it (as I found the baptism for Henry George Steel in Portsea) but am inclined to stick with the Poplar district.

I was just looking at the image of the 1871 Census MaureeninNy posted - it has some interesting points I can follow up - Eliza A Thomson (grandmother of Henrietta) and also Mary A E Steele (mother of Henrietta) are both shown under occupation as "Needlewoman"

Something else, a bit 'strange' - when I search for Eliza Thomson on the 1871 - I get two - Eliza and Eliza A - both born in Kent but on two different Census records, identical birth year BUT one is staying in a Public House in Kent and there appears to be a William Thomson (also the name of someone I am looking for - possibly witness to the marriage of Thomson to Steel) there but I cannot get a full list - I can see him on the image but not on the transcript! Very strange

Oooh they are elusive ancestors! :-S

On the 1871 census Henrietta Steele was born in Bromley, so she would be the Poplar one.

Eliza Thom(p)son is in Poplar on the 1861 and 1851 censuses. Both born 1807.

A widow in 1861 but with her husband William on the 1851 one.

If I could copy& paste properly I'd do so for you, but afraid I can't. Despite numerous explanations of how to.

May Ann Thom(p)son's brother William got married in 1871 - it's on the London Marriages. But, unfortunately, both the witnesses were from the bride's side of the family.

Also unfortunate, is that it looks like his wife died 2 years later.

Well that is more information than I had when I posted this earlier today.

I can check the 1851 and 1861 - at last I have something to put in the Thomson section of my files and my Thomson branch in my tree.

Thanks

Janet

I'll just put these here...

1861 census transcription details for: 2, James Place, Poplar
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 307
Folio: 39
Page: 33
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: 2 Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 2, James Place, Poplar
County: London
THOMPSON, Eliza Head Widow F 54 1807 Dressmaker
??, Kent
THOMPSON, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 16 1845 Dressmaker
St Georges, Middlesex
THOMPSON, William Son M 14 1847 Engineers Ap
Bromley, Middlesex
ADAMS, Jane Lodger Unmarried F 40 1821 Fund Holder
Ratcliff, Middlesex
,,,,,,,,,,
1851 census transcription details for: 7, Tetley Street, Poplar, Tower Hamlets
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1556
Folio: 394
Page: 33
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 19
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Tower Hamlets
Address: 7, Tetley Street, Poplar, Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

THOMSON, William Head Married M 44 1807 Rigger
Scotland
THOMSON, Eliza Wife Married F 44 1807
Chatham, Kent
THOMSON, Mary A Daughter F 6 1845 At Home
St George East, Middlesex
THOMSON, William Son M 4 1847 At Home
Bromley, Middlesex


I can't see ANYONE other than son William in 1881!!!!!

Maureen

Maureen

Thank you - I found the 1851 but could not find the 1861! I see it is because I forgot they like to add a 'p' to their name now and then. What is the reference for William in 1881 please?

Thank you

Janet

His 2nd marriage is on the London Marriages as well. 1878 to Isabella (I forget the surname, and I've come off it now).

No helpful witnesses though.

I'll try to find him in a second. Just wanted to plop this lot here to look over.

1851 census transcription details for: Baker Street, Orsett
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1773
Folio: 322
Page: 2
Reg. District: Orsett
Sub District: Orsett
Parish: Orsett
Enum. District: 11A
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Baker Street, Orsett
STEEL, Henry Head Married M 35 1816 Lawyer(*sic)
Laindon, Essex
STEEL, Ellen Daughter F 5 1846 Scholar
Stifford, Essex
STEEL, Isabella Wife Married F 32 1819
Scotland
STEEL, George Son M 4 1847
Grays, Essex
STEEL, Eliza Daughter F 1 1850
Orsett, Essex

.............
1861 census transcription details for: 30, Reeve Street, Poplar
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 305
Folio: 138
Page: 56
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: 2 Poplar
Parish: Poplar
Enum. District: 5
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 30, Reeve Street, Poplar
County: London
STEELE, Henry Head Married M 40 1821 Sawyer
Ashboro, Buckinghamshire
STEELE, Isabella Wife Married F 46 1815
Roxburgh, Scotland
>>STEELE, George H Son M 14 1847
..., Essex
STEELE, Eliza A Daughter F 11 1850
Orsett, Essex
STEELE, Hannah Daughter F 9 1852
Ownham, Essex
STEELE, Isabella B Daughter F 7 1854
Bromley, Middlesex
STEELE, Alice S Daughter F 4 1857
Bromley, Middlesex
STEELE, Henrietta Daughter F 0 (5M) 1861
Poplar, Middlesex
CANNON, Matilda Visitor Widow F 39 1822 Tailoress
Spittalfield, Middlesex
CANNON, Richard Visitor M 2 1859
Poplar, Middlesex
CANNON, Joseph Visitor M 4 1857
Poplar, Middlesex


Maureen

Name: William John Thomson
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1847 (11th Feb. 1847)
Baptism Date: 3 Oct 1847
Father's Name: William Thomson (Mariner)
Mother's name: Eliza Ann Thomson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

(not sure if you have above, I'm just looking 'round'!)

Chris :)

1881 England Census about William Thompson
Name: William Thompson
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Isabella Thompson
Gender: Male
Where born: Pop, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Bromley St Leonard
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 42 Byron St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Engine Fitter At Wks
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Piece: 501
Folio: 96
Page Number: 56
Household Members:
Name Age
William Thompson 31
Isabella Thompson 22
William T. Thompson 2
George J. Thompson
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 501; Folio: 96; Page: 56

Birth year is a bit off but I'm pretty sure it's him.

Maureen
~~~~~to Chris!

~~~~~~~waves back, we meet again, lol.

It's looking good!...

Chris :)

This is getting quite exciting now - and a very strange 'circle' appearing.

ChristinaS - Thank you I will seek out those two marriages

Chris - Thank you for just looking 'round, I don't have any baptism records, usually just trawl about in the BMDs and Census records on FMP/FreeBMD, so appreciate William John Thomson info

Maureen - Thank you for the Steel stuff to look at

and here is the strange 'circle' - 30 Reeve Street, Poplar connects to a witness on the marriage cert of Robert Smith to Eliza Steel in 1904 who lived at 2 Reeve Street, but also it is fascinating that there is an Essex connection. Essex is where my Mum and Dad (Dad is the grandson of the 1904 Robert and Eliza) moved to shortly after I was born (moved out of East End London to new housing estates). Guess where - very close to Stifford/Grays!

So it seems my family may have been 'ping-ponging' between Essex, Poplar and Essex again.

This should keep me occupied for a while tying them all in together.

Thank you all so much

JannieAnnie

It's just the differences in names and especially occupations that's bothering me with the father of Eliza and husband of Mary Ann E.

My poor overheated brain is bleating "does not compute---warning warning".

Maureen :-)

Hi Maureen

Yes, I'm sure the 1881 is him - can't have been an Engineers Apprentice in 1861 for nothing.

Janet

Promise I'm not going to talk about my family history - just want to say this.

My gt.grandmother married Harry Horne and left him. She moved in with Alfred Stringle and they had 5 children. All the children were registered under the name of Horne. The birth certificates gave the father's name as Alfred Horne.

So - I think it's possible that because Mary Ann had married Geoerge Steele, and that was now her surname - she gave her daughter that surname. Thomas John was her real father, but his surname wasn't Steele. Although he was a mariner.

It could also be that Mary Ann and Thomas broke up after a short while, so Eliza was never even told of his existence. Just that he was a mariner, with Mary Ann's husband's name.


It's a thought.

Maureen yes that is a problem - I need to think about the fact that some are sawyers / able seamen / mariners.

My initial thoughts are along the lines of a 'liaison' (and started when I received the annoying certificate with a different father name for Eliza) that perhaps if George Henry Steel was a sawyer when he married Mary Ann Eliza, during the following 10 years became an able seaman - which would mean being away, perhaps she had a liaison with a Thomas John somebody - and as has previously been commented on these boards on other threads Registrars ask for a name and could assume everyone was using the same surname! Of course, it might be nothing like that ! Which would mean that a child of an extra-marital liaison (if hubby is away at sea) could have the family name - and save a bit of face.

Other possible factors that could support my theory is that Eliza apparently always said she was an 'orphan' - family unknown - which would have technically been true when she married in 1904! Or that as the child of a liaison was rejected by George Henry's family and possibly her mother's family - and would support the fact that she is missing between birth and re-appearance in 1901 Census.

Just a fanciful theory - more likely I've gone off into a different family somewhere - but it all seems to fit so well, thanks to everyone's help today.

Janet

Ha ha - yes ChristineS - just seen your post at 21:39 - I started doing my reply but was interrupted by a phone call - have been reporting in to my Mum/Dad on what has been discovered today.

There was always mystery surrounding Eliza Ann - I remember when I was younger hearing bits of conversations at my grandparents' home indicating that there was a secret or something not quite clear about Eliza, ie she was an 'orphan', didn't know who her parents were - and yet George Henry is named on her marriage certificate.

Maybe Robert and Eliza could not marry until 1904 because of some 'past' that Eliza had (not of her making) - which would be the unknown secret that was hanging in the air when I was listening in to adults' conversations.

Janet

Well,I know as a family historian that I've come to expect almost anything. :-D

Good luck,Janet!

Maureen

Thanks again Maureen

Janet