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Mary was born c1828, She was the grandmother of the lady I am trying to help so she has info on the family from the marriage of Mary and Andrew but not before :-S

I have found the family on the 1871 census it looks like Andrew remarried to a Sarah

Jordan Street is (1841) Liverpool St Thomas...so need to find Kerr/McNeil/McNeill around St Thomas' area...
Were Isabella and Mary E twins..?? Only 1 baptism /Birth listed...(Isabella)
Havent located a David yet...mm

got to go out for about an hour, be back soon

I keep looking at this one???

I know it is the wrong wife but Mary may have died and Andrew remarried??

Andrew IS a Joiner and several of the children have the same names?

1871 England Census
about Andrew McNeill Name: Andrew McNeill
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah McNeill
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Household schedule number: 222
Piece: 3764
Folio: 56
Page Number: 43
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew McNeill 43 Joiner
Sarah McNeill 43 b Cockermouth, Cumberland
David McNeill 15 b Liverpool
Isabella McNeill 10 b Scotland
Agnes McNeill 8 b Liverpool
Robert McNeill 6 b Liverpool
James Gribble 44
Annie Gribble 41

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3764; Folio: 56; Page: 43; GSU roll: 841881

Isabella 'could have been born in Scotland and baptised when they returned to Liverpool? - She was born on 27th April and not baptised until 22nd May.

I think it is worth looking at, if only to discount?

Dea x

I wonder if Mary died and Andrew re-married?

1881

Name: Andrew Mc Neill
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Mc Neill
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Kirkdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 66 Lambeth Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: House Carpenter

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3683
Folio: 33
Page Number: 62
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Mc Neill 50
Sarah Mc Neill 51 b.Cumberland, England
David Mc Neill 25
Janet Mc Neill 23 <<<<<
Mary E. Mc Neill 20
Agnes Mc Neill 18 <<<<<<
Robt. Mc Neill 16



EDIT

Could Mary E have been Mary Elizabeth, in Scotland Elizabeth and Isabella were interchangeable names at that time. Not uncommon for a daughter named for her mother to use a middle name to avoid confusion within the family.

OOh Moira - I see you have already foun d the family I posted above!! - I have been looking at it for ages now, that's why I asked for Andrew's occupation and details of children.

I DO think that it may very well be them!

Dea x

OOOhh - I am disappointed!

I lost my internet connection just as I posted my last message and have just this minute got it back so I expected you all to have this sorted by now but you haven't got any further.

Will take another look in a little while to see if I can find anything more.

Dea x

Can't find the family on the 1861. Just throwing this one into the pot!:

MARY ELISABETH MCNEIL Pedigree
Event(s):
Birth: 03 JAN 1861 Mochrum, Wigtown, Scotland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: ANDREW MCNEIL Family
Mother: MARY KEER

This is Andrew's marriage to Sarah:

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about Sarah Chatfield Name:
Sarah Chatfield
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 21 Apr 1867
Parish: Liverpool St Nicholas
Spouse's Name: Andrew McNeill Joiner. Widower
Father's Name: John Fisher Chatfield ...Joiner
Spouse Father's Name: Andrew McNeill ...Weaver

Address - Dublin St. for both.

Witnesses - William Graham & Martha Higgins.

Dea x

Dea,
looking at Andrew's marrige to Sarah, do you think this could be him in 1841 (one of his children had the second name Robina; Andrew snr is a HLW (hand loom weaver?). Glasserton is quite close to Mochrum:

1841 Scotland Census
about Andrew Mcneil
Name: Andrew Mcneil
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigtownshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Glasserton
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Barlcraig W F
Parish Number: 885
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Mcneil 45
Jean Mcneil 45
Andrew Mcneil 10
William Mcneil 8
Rubina Mcneil 6
Jane Layborn 79

The William in the 1841 (familysearch have his marriage to Lavinia Lay in Jan 1859:

1861 Scotland Census
about William Mcneil
Name: William Mcneil
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relationship: Son-in-law
Spouse's name : Lavinia Mcneil
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasserton, Wigtownshire
Registration Number: 892
Registration district: Mochrum
Civil parish: Mochrum
County: Wigtownshire
Address: City Of Glasgow Bank
Occupation: Mason (journeyman)
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 50
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1861_148
Household Members: Name Age
Elisabeth Lay 58
William Mcneil 28
Lavinia Mcneil 22

Could well be Potty !!!

I also found this Mary Kerr from the same area working in Liverpool.

Though on first inspection her father could well have been 'Mon tgomery' so I sort of discounted it.

However, I will post it just in case as this other link has now appeared:

1851 England Census
about Mary Kerr Name: Mary Kerr
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Cook
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Port William, Wigtownshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 1lll
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 129
Piece: 2188
Folio: 462
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ed Rawlins 39
Thomas O Manorick 79
Mary Manorick 70
Gertrude Rowlands 10
Washington Rowlands 9
Henry Charles Rowlands 6
Gerald C Rowlands 7
Julia Jane Rowlands 4
Alfred Rowlands 1
Elizabeth Davies 22
Margaret Clarke 24
Mary Kerr 24
Janet Thomson 28




Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2188; Folio: 462; Page: 34; GSU roll: 87195

Dea x

Have to disappear for a while - will be back later !!

Dea x

There is this baptism (Sorbie and Port William are both in the right area - I live quite close to them all)

MARY KERR Pedigree
Christening: 25 SEP 1825 Sorbie, Wigtown, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JOHN KERR Family
Mother: JANET BLACK

I think we have got there:

1841 Scotland Census
about John Kerr
Name: John Kerr
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigtownshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Mochrum
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Eldrig Village
Occupation: Tailor *********************
Parish Number: 892
Household Members: Name Age
John Kerr 45
Jannet Kerr 45
Mary Kerr 15
William Kerr 13
Robert Kerr 10
Margret Kerr 7
David Kerr 5
Peter Kerr 3
Charls Kerr 1

GREAT TEAMWORK here !!!

Only back for a couple of minutes but it looks like we have it sorted !!!

Thanks Potty !!!!!!!!! <3

Will be back in a while !!

Dea Xxx

1851 gives John's birthplace as Kirkinner, so a possible birth and marriage

JOHN KER Pedigree
Christening: 13 OCT 1795 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
Father: HENRY KER Family
Mother: MARY COWAN


JOHN CARR Pedigree
Marriages:
Spouse: JANET BLACK Family
Marriage: 25 JUL 1819 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland

Janet Kerr, nee Black, 1851 gives POB as Minnigaff:

JANNET BLACK Pedigree
Christening: 20 AUG 1796 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JOHN BLACK Family
Mother: ELIZABETH MCKEAND

Oh great work ladies. Well done!

The red herring was John being a tailor in Liverpool?

In the passing Potty some of my ancestors (Fulton, Wood, Woods, Litterick and McCormick) came from Kirkinner and Mochrum.

Moira, this best way to confirm this would be to get Mary Elizabeth's birth registration from scotlandspeople. Scottish birth certs give date and place of parents' marriage.

Images of all the other baptisms and marriages should also be on scotlandspeople and you may be able to go back further on there.