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Hi Maureen,

..........
"It must have been in the very late 1950s when my uncle drove us to Forest Hill so I could meet my father’s sister Ruby and her family (husband John and two daughters Enie and Norma)."
.........

Oh yes, indeed they are Lucy's people - Enie is Enie D N Forder.

Best regards,

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Oh gosh-been a while and looking back on this thread you must know/think we are all crazy people.

Would you mind if we ask a ton of questions?

And where is Lucy?

Maureen


:-) :-)

What a turn up for the books!! Smashing.........

Hi Maureen,

It was purely by chance that I stumbled across the two Genes Reunited threads ("Trying to Find the mother of Ruby and Douglas" and "Enie D N Forder") via a Google search for my grandmother's maiden name. In fact I had not thought about her maiden name for decades, but it caught my eye when I was looking at my father's birth certificate for his place of birth (I needed it for an India Visa application). Anyway, seeing the name Carash after all these years triggered my memory to recall my childhood, hence the Google search to see if any relatives from that side of the family are still alive.

Please do ask questions and I'll do my best to answer.

I do hope Lucy sees these messages one day and gets in touch ... I am sure I can entertain/bore her for a few hours with Gordon family history.

Best regards,

Stuart

hi guys just want to say yaaahhhh!!!

thank you so mush for all this information this fills so many gaps, as you can properly see from the thread we have had a very hard time, i have quite a few questions, but need to go back and figure out what i wanted to find out
Thank you for the picture as well thats great,

I am so over the moon to find a family member who has a lot of answers

We have struggled to work a lot of stuff out beacuse we have limted information.

We have letters from Ruby Dorothy when she was with hans when she wrote to ruby as ruby looked after her nan emma and ruby sent money for her when she was looking after emma, making sure she is well e.t.c but norma nd my nan dont rember alot which is a shame,
My nan has a glass cutlerty set that your dad dudley had left her when he passed a prsent for his niece, my nan still has it.
They also have the dudleys funeral card with the date and church on it.
Norma did not know that dudley exsited my nan did as she is a bit older than norma but both remember the funeral

I am going to have a look and tell my family about this

I dont mind you boring me with the gordon family history i really would love to know and so would my family

Thank you so much :-D

What a wonderful addition to this thread! It is absolutely superb that you have taken the time to share this information Stuart. I am sure that Lucy will have many questions for you.

I think the one thing that we didn't get to the bottom of was the names of your Grandfather Gordon's parents.

I don't think that we found him on any census with his parents.

Our family has had a tendency to use middle names and sometimes nicknames (on my mother's side of the family I had an Uncle Harold Edward Cheney who was known to all his friends and work colleagues as Sam - no idea why).

Anyway, my grandfather's name as shown on my father's marriage certificate was Dudley Stewart Gordon (Deceased).

Hence my name in his memory is Stuart Dudley Gordon (my mother did not like the fact that Stewart can be truncated to Stew, so my father agreed to Stuart).

Now Dorothy always referred to her first husband as Dudley but on the family photographs his name is written as Stewart Forbes Gordon (sorry I used my Stuart spelling previously - I had forgotten). I suspect that his full name was Stewart Forbes Dudley Gordon but I've never seen that written anywhere.

Sadly my knowledge of the Gordon history stops with my grandfather.

When I used to visit Dorothy and Hans in Switzerland there were never any conversations about life before von/de Becker's.

I do have one memory of my great grandmother!

This was recounted to me by my mother (Alice Gertrude Cheney) on several occassions...

My father (Dudley Bertram Gordon) went to London Airport (Croydon) to collect his grandmother!

We are going back to the 1930s when passenger air travel was a real luxury.

His grandmother had been to East Africa visiting relatives (her uncle if I correctly recall) that ran a safari lodge/hotel.

As my father watched the people emerging from the plane and descending the aircraft steps onto the runway, there was a pause, then a native spear started to emerge from the door, followed by a shield, as the persons arms appeared he realised they were his grandmother’s.

Once out of the door she stood erect with the ends of the spear and shield resting on step by her feet, she paused and surveyed the scene in front of her, then descended the steps to runway.

Apparently she was the only passenger on that flight to bring back a spear and a shield!

The Gordon side of the family has always been quite adventurous ... I met my wife (Angela Norma Farmery) in Gaberone, Botswana, Africa (she's originally from Yorkshire)!

Oh this is wonderful!! So glad you turned up,Lucy! :-D

Stuart-it sounds as though your ggrandmother certainly knew how to make an entrance!! Ah,for the good old days when one could travel by plane with their shield and spear in tow.;-)

Now that the London Electoral rolls are on Ancestry I did a very quick dig:
1927

12 Ferris Road
Agnes and Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash
Emma and Henry Caplin
..........
Later on..1938
12 Ferris Road
Emma Georgina Caplin
Ellen and Walter Jesse Cobb
Ruby Georgina Gordon
and at number 14
Agnes Carash
................
1939
12 Ferris Rd
Emma Georgina Caplin
Alice,Dudley and Ruby Gordon.

14
Agnes Carash
..........

All the best,
Maureen

12 Ferris Road, East Dulwich is the address shown on my parents’ marriage certificate 17 August 1935.
They lived there for a while and then moved to 226 Stockwell Road, SW9.
My father passed away on 30 May 1951 in his sleep at home (226 Stockwell Road, SW9).
In WW2 my father was in RAF aerial reconnaissance North Africa, he was also a member of the Royal Egyptian Archaeological Society and spent some considerable time photographically cataloguing Egyptian antiquities – particularly in the Valley of the Kings (Thebes, Luxor) but also around the many pyramids of Lower Egypt. After the war he became a freelance photographic journalist (based in Fleet Street).
In the autumn of 2000 my wife Angela and I spent some time visiting Luxor as I wanted to walk in my father’s footsteps around the temples and tombs of Upper Egypt, capturing my own images of the many photographs I had seen as a child.
In 2006 we visited Lower Egypt so I could continue my journey of remembrance, around the many pyramids and spending hours (actually days) in the Museum of Egyptian Antiquities in Cairo.
In 2009 we returned to Lower Egypt with our daughter Katherine and her boyfriend – I think they enjoyed the pyramids and the museum, but were not quite as impressed as I was with our camel trek through the white desert. Our Bedouin camel herder spoke no English and neither did our armed guard – our support vehicle driver spoke reasonable English, but we only saw him at meal times (he drove on ahead to cook the meals and set up camp).

Now - sorry to carry this on if it is irrelevant.

1891

Name: Stewart F G Gordon
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George C Gordon
Mother's Name: Elizabeth T Gordon
Gender: Male
Where born: Brompton, Kent, England

Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Brompton
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: looks like 3 Mina Villas

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 661
Folio: 46
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
George C Gordon 43 Royal Engineer Army, b. Westminster
Elizabeth T Gordon 44 b. Castrick, Aberdeenshire
Priscilla C G Gordon 15 b. East Indies
Ada M G Gordon 12 b. East Indies
George E G Gordon 9 b. Gosport
Florence A G Gordon 6 b. Brompton, Kent
Charles E G Gordon 4 b. Brompton, Kent
Stewart F G Gordon 2

The only problem with that is his middle name!

Births Jun 1888 Gordon Stewart Frank G Medway 2a 593

1901

Name: Stewart F G Gordon
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth S Gordon
Gender: Male
Where born: Gillingham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Gillingham St Barnabas
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 267
Piece: 738
Folio: 23
Page Number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth S Gordon 54 Wife, Married
Ada M G Gordon 22
Florence A G Gordon 19
Stewart F G Gordon 12
Jessie B G Gordon 9

Definitely not irrelevant - my knowledge ends with knowing that Stewart Forbes Gordon was my grandfather and that he died motor racing at Brooklands ... I have never known his date of birth nor exact date of death.

Besides memories from my childhood when my mother used to recount family stories to me, I also have a note on the back of a photograph:

"He was killed at Brooklands in 1915 when your father was 24 months old. He ran into a concrete pillar after which they were changed to straw, a brass plate was put in the ground where it happened."

Now I have to say that the number of months is difficult to read, the 2 was first written as a 1 then changed to a 2.

I visited Brooklands some years ago but that section of the track was removed many years ago, so no trace of the brass plate. I gather that in the early days of motor racing that it was common practice to commemorate a driver’s death with a brass plate in the track showing their name and date of death. Later they were removed as they became a hazard (as most were on the corners!).

I have my parents’ birth, marriage and death certificates but that's as far back as my paper trail goes.

The family obviously had little regard to the importance of completeness and accuracy on certificates as my father's age is overstated by 1 year on his marriage certificate, and going back in time his birth certificate shows his father as Dudley Gordon.

I would greatly appreciate any/all assistance in tracking down the marriage certificate of my grandparents Ruby Dorothy Carash and Stewart Forbes Gordon [Dudley Stewart Gordon] as well as his birth and death certificates.

The fact that the family had a habit of switching first and middle names, plus they often miss one or more first/middle names out when filling in certificates, makes it flipping difficult to find.

Hi

I have your nans birth certficate we needed it to find out who her parents were we have found lots of stuff on your nans side we have not hot nothing on your grandad, we had so many theories as to who he was but now i have got a bit more information i will try and see what i can find out.

Your nan seems an amazing lady, i knew she married dudley then married hans but did not know what happened inbetween,

If you have any pictures of your nan and hans my great auntie norma would love to see as i would,

I will scan in her birth certificate and send it you.

Norma was overwelmed of the story you have posted, i have just come on here and will be on all this afternoon just going to go through a few things and i may have questions if thats ok

Many Thanks

Just thought I would post the 1881 to go with the 1891 and 1901 as a new boy comes in to play

1881
Charles E. Gordon
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza E. Gordon
Gender: Male
Where born: St Georges W, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 19 Oakley Crescent
Occupation: Marble & Stonemason
Registration district: Chelsea
Name Age
Charles E. Gordon 31 head stonemason
Eliza E. Gordon 31
George C. Gordon 33 visitor Armourer Sergt 66th Reg
Elizabeth T. Gordon 34 visitor Aberdeen
Cosmo C. G. Gordon 8 Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Elizabeth F. G. Gordon 7 Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Priscella C. G. Gordon 5 Poona, East Indies
Ada M. G. Gordon 2 Deesa, East Indies
Elizabeth R. Creasy 61 Lodger

hi quoy

Is this related to Sturart F Gordon as above?

Many Thanks

Hello Lucy

yes same family but with another son
Cosmo, what a fab name ,or to give him his full title

Cosmo Charles Glennie Gordon

Cosmo Charles G Gordon
BIRTH:
Oct 1872 - Alverstoke, Hampshire


and here he is in 1911 following in his fathers footsteps

Cosmo Cherles Glennie Gordon
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Gosforth, Hants Alverstoke on the image
Civil parish: Warwick St Mary
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: 37 Victoria Street Warwick
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Marter Master Serjeant Royal Enginers
Cosmo Cherles Glennie Gordon 38
Dora Margaret Gordon 33

married 8 years no children


and his death in 1950
Cosmo C G Gordon
BIRTH:
abt 1873
DEATH:
Jun 1950 - Chatham, Kent, England

Cosmo's marriage to Dora

LDS Microfilm #1795037
Natal Marriages

Entry #1314
Husband: Cosmo Charles Glennie GORDON
Wife: Dora Margaret SMITH
Date: 12/6/1902

Hi Lucy,

I would really appreciate a copy of Dorothy’s birth certificate and I’ll find you some photographs of Dorothy and Hans … may not be for a few weeks though as I’m in the office catching up with work this weekend, getting ready for our trip to India next week.

The photos span quite a few years; my first visit was by train when I was 19/20 years old. Then there was a gap of a few years when I lived in Botswana, visiting with Angela on our overland trip back to the UK. Then I worked in Liberia and used to call in on them most trips (as I flew with Swiss Air via Geneva once or twice a year).

In 1980 a few weeks after the coup d'état in Liberia, I visited them along with my wife Angela and children – so they did meet their great grandson Stephen James Gordon.

Whilst I was living in Botswana (early/mid 1970s) my mother and her sister visited Dorothy and Hans … I think that was the one and only time they had seen one another in person since Dorothy and Hans moved to New York!

Incidentally when they moved to New York they had to work to earn a living – Dorothy was the ladies fashion buyer at Saks on Fifth Avenue and Hans worked at a Diamond Merchants. They retired to Switzerland on their USA pensions, of course over time the US Dollar weakened against the Swiss Franc so that must have impacted them. Hans had some amazing family/friend connections, he became the accountant at the Luzern Transport Museum … this was very beneficial in terms of keeping active, top up income and free transportation tickets – trains, funiculars, cable cars – I think we have been up and down every mountain in the Luzern area.

Please feel free to ask any questions, I’ll do my very best to help.

My great auntie Norma will be giving you an e-mail tomorrow she has lots of questions she would like to ask, she finds this all overwelming and is so pleased to find a first cousin, the story of her dad johns garage made her laugh!!
Your nan had sent little presents over the years to norma.

Do you know a rough date your grandad was born so i can try and search for him and an area that he was from or lived in?

It would be a great help so i can start finding out about the gordon side

We have traced back your nans side to candada as you can see from the thread but drew a blank with your grandad

Was your grandad a racing driver for a long time, i cant find anything on brooklands, surrey history about him, what sort of racing was it?

This will just help in trying to find his birth certificate so i can eliminate other people

Many Thanks

SFG is driving me crazy!

I don't think he's the Gillingham fellow as this looks like his death:
England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Stewart F G Gordon
Name: Stewart F G Gordon
Birth Date: abt 1888
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1962
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Shrewsbury
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 9a
Page: 168
...........
I don't quite know what to make of this in relation to how SFG was supposed to have died:
From:
http://www.inter-bike.co.uk/features-motorcycling/motorcycle-feature-articles/208-brooklands-museum-the-birthplace-of-british-motorsport-and-aviation.html

"In 1914 the start of the First World War brought a temporary end to the use of Brooklands as a motor racing circuit and the entire facility was handed over to the War Office. It became a centre for recuperating wounded officers who quickly set up their own motorcycle race meetings purely for the military."

Back to the kitchen for more coffee!

Maureen :-)