Find Ancestors

Just read your thread and at the very end found the Birmingham references. Not sure what , if anything ,you need help with there but I can access the electoral roll for Brum. In 1912 there was a Harry swann and an Albert Hazeldine both with addresses on Bromsgrove st. I think on 1911 census Albert Hazeldine was a hairdresser so maybe they had buisnesses by each other. It's late and I am probably not making much sense. If you want me to look for specific people happy to do so.

( Bit I am confused on is who Albert Swann is to Henry Swann - in post above)

bw
Vanessa

Hi Vanessa, thanks for the offer of help. To be honest I'm trying everything I can think of the try and identify my great grandfather, Ernest Swann. His son Albert, my grandfather married Edith Brailsford in 1935. Her mother was Beatrice Hazeldine who was born in Aston.

The above post was just a bit of a brain dump late at night because I had come across another Swann family in Nottingham who also had a connection to Aston in Birmingham. It could point to another connection between the two families or it could just be a co-incidence.

There is another thing you might be able to help me with though as Beatrice Hazeldine mentioned above is also a bit of an enigma. She married George Brailsford (my grandmothers dad) in 1911. The first three kids though have Boden as their mother's maiden name in the birth record (including my grandmother). The next three are all registered with mmn as Hazeldine. We are pretty certain that all the brothers and sisters had the same mother as I have asked two of them who are still living. One of them has actually shown me (and I have scanned copies of) Beatrice's birth certificate (Hazeldine), death certificate (Brailsford - formerly Hazeldine) and marriage certificate (Boden). The marriage was witnessed by an A. Hazeldine. Her father was William Hazeldine on the birth certificate but William Boden on the marriage certificate. It looks at some point that there was a change to the family name but I don't know why and no-one in the family had heard the name Boden before I started looking into my tree.

I have now received the documents I sent for and the Ernest Swann birth certificate really has stumped me. There is no father recorded. The mother is stated to be Sarah Swann but the informant box says 'mark of Martha Swann occupier, 13 South Street Nottingham. The date of birth for Ernest was 23rd February 1874.

The second document I sent for was Ida's birth certificate which is almost identical to the one I have for Albert. Father is Ernest Swann, mother is Eliza Swann formerly Walters and they were living on Alfreton Road, Sutton in Ashfield. Ida was born 1st June 1912.

On a whim I also sent for a third document. The death certificate for Arthur. He died 17th October 1915 aged just 13 months. The informant was the mother, Eliza A Swann of Alfreton Road, Sutton in Ashfield. The really useful thing though is that in the occupation box it reads 'Son of Ernest Swann, Private, Sherwood Foresters (coal miner hewer) (deceased). So I now know for definite that the Ernest killed in WW1 was my great-grandfather. I just still don't know where he came from.

Can't wait for the local archives to become available again when Mansfield library re-opens on 6th January.

This is great news Wayne

The marriage of Eliza and Ernest-----Ernest stated illegitimate


now remember the Carter / swann ??
1871 census

1871 England Census 1871 England Census
Name: Sarah Carter
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry Carter
Mother's Name: Martha Carter
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England

Addresss 13 SOUTH STREET

Civil parish: St Mary
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Byron
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 148
Piece: 3520
Folio: 55
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Carter 42
>>>>>Martha Carter 42 maybe informant !!!
Henry Carter 18
>>>>>Sarah Carter 16 ---maybe the mother of Ernest !!
Levinia Carter 11
Albert Carter 5
Eliza Carter 2


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3520; Folio: 55; Page: 23; GSU roll: 839750.


1881 CENSUS


1881 Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Henry SWANN Head M Male 52 Quorndon, Leicester, England Stocking Weaver
Martha SWANN Wife M Female 50 Nottingham, England Lace Clipper
Albert SWANN Son U Male 15 Nottingham, England Printers Assistant
Eliza SWANN Daur U Female 12 Nottingham, England Box Hand (P)

>>>> Earnest SWANN Son U Male 7 Nottingham, England Scholar

Harry PRESLEY Visitor M Male 20 Derby, England Turner (E)
Lavinia PRESLEY Visitor M Female 20 Nottingham, England Box Hand (P)
John PRIESTLEY (PRESLEY) Son (Visitor) Male 1 Nottingham, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 13 Lennox Street
Census Place Nottingham St Mary, Nottingham, England
Family History Library Film 1341803
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3360 / 81
Page Number 25




BE BACK IN A WHILE
barbara x

1851 census

It does say SWANN in the image

1851 England Census 1851 England Census
Name: Henry Swaine
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha Swaine
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Quaindon, Leicestershire, England

Civil parish: Nottingham St Mary
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Exchange
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 81
Piece: 2133
Folio: 37
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Swaine 23 -----Quaindon, Leicestershire
Martha Swaine 22 ----Nottinghamshire, England


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2133; Folio: 37; Page: 23; GSU roll: 87763.


MAYBE their marriage index

Marriages Mar 1850

>>>>Beckwith Martha Nottingham 15 747

Brooker Mary Nottingham 15 747
Cole James Nottingham 15 747
Lord Robert Nottingham 15 747
Pearce Mary Ann Nottingham 15 747

>>>>>Swann Henry Nottingham 15 747

Twigger John Nottingham 15 747
Wainwright Frances Eliza Nottingham 15 747

====================================================

Name change ???

1861 census

1861 England Census 1861 England Census
Name: Henry Carter
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha Carter
Gender: Male
Where born: St Marys, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address: 20 south street

Condition as to marriage: View image
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Byron
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 217
Piece: 2461
Folio: 61
Page Number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Carter 32
Martha Carter 31
William Carter 9 ----St Marys, Nottinghamshire, Eng
Henry Carter 7 -St Marys, Nottinghamshire, Eng
Sarah Carter 5 ---St Marys, Nottinghamshire, Eng
Lavinia Carter 1 MO ------ St Marys, Nottinghamshire, Eng------
Thomas Harper 21 ---lodger

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2461; Folio: 61; Page: 29; GSU roll: 542974.


Barbara x

Hi wayne, not wanting to cloud the real search here which appears to be based around nottingham. Looks like you are getting some fabulous help.
but...
Had a look for some of the names on elec roll but no sign of the Brailsfords. Were they actually ever living in Birmingham? The elec roll kicks in about 1912 through to the 1950s. There are William Bodens but no William Hazeldine- could you give his wife's name then I can look for them as a couple- if they lived in Birmingham that is.

best wishes

Vanessa

ps do you have these family groups on the 1911 census ? If so the addresses can be searched on the elec roll

Hi Vanessa
Please don't think you are clouding anything, you are most welcome,

The Hazeldine / Boden are a differant branch in Waynes tree than the Swann / Carters --although they merge eventually lol !!

Can you see any Boden ---with William as head ---in Duddeston, Aston, Birmingham ?

Thank you so much Vanessa

Barbara x

It may be William and Elizabeth Boden , Vanessa

however just found this on 1911 ---Is this your Beatrice in the 1911 census Wayne ??

1911 Census
Household Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:

TAYLOR, TIMOTHY HEAD MARRIED M 66 GROCER MATLOCK DERBYSHIRE
TAYLOR, WILLIAM FRANK SON SINGLE M 30 ARCHITECT MANSFIELD NOTTS
TAYLOR, BETSY HENCHLIFF DAUGHTER SINGLE F 28 HOUSE KEEPER MANSFIELD NOTTS
TAYLOR, ALBERT SPENER SON SINGLE M 25 ASSISTANT MANSFIELD NOTTS
TAYLOR, FRED CHARLES SON SINGLE M 22 ASSISTANT MANSFIELD NOTTS

BODEN, BEATRICE SERVANT SINGLE F 20 SERVANT HOUGTON DERBSYHIRE

BODEN BEATRICE (RG14PN20345 RG78PN1219 RD428 SD5 ED13 SN1)

Address 20 MARKET PLACE MANSFIELD County Nottinghamshire
District Mansfield Subdistrict Mansfield
Enumeration District 13 Parish Mansfield




Barbara x

1911 census ??? is this a possible for William ?

1911 Census Household Transcript
Back to normal view Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
CRESSWELL, WILLIAM HEAD MARRIED 30 M 49 COAL MINER DEPUTY DALE ABBY DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, MARY ANN WIFE MARRIED F 51 WIFE OLD PARK SALOP SHROPSHIRE
CRESSWELL, SAM SON SINGLE M 16 COAL MINER PONY DRIVER NEW HOUGHTON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, JOHN SON SINGLE M 22 COAL MINER DAYMAN ALFRETON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, JOE SON SINGLE M 19 COAL MINER DAYMAN ALFRETON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, ARTHUR SON SINGLE M 15 COAL MINER PONYDRIVER NEW HOUGHTON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, EDITH DAUGHTER F 13 MILL HAND NEW HOUGHTON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, ANN DAUGHTER F 10 NEW HOUGHTON DERBYSHIRE
CRESSWELL, DANIEL SON M 8 NEW HOUGHTON DERBYSHIRE

HAZELDINE, WILLIAM BOARDER WIDOWER M 60 LABOURER MADLEY SALOP SHROPSHIRE

HAZELDINE WILLIAM (RG14PN20294 RG78PN1216 RD428 SD2 ED7 SN97)
Address 77 NEW HOUGHTON PLEASLEY MANSFIELD County Nottinghamshire
District Mansfield Subdistrict Shirebrook
Enumeration District 7 Parish Pleasley

Barbara x

Well this is a Possible for Mary Ann and William Cresswell

Mary Ann was a BODEN !!


Marriages Mar 1884

>>>>>>Boden Mary Ann Derby 7b 664
Covington Minnie Derby 7b 664
>>>>>>Cresswell William Derby 7b 664
Moore Walter Henry Derby 7b 664

What are your thoughts on this Wayne ?

Marriages Sep 1857

Boden Edward Wellington Sh 6a 1138
Hazledine Ellen Wellington Sh. 6a 1138
----------------------------------------------------------------------

1861 census

1861 England Census 1861 England Census
Name: Edward Boden
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Boden
Gender: Male
Where born: Dawley, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Dawley
Ecclesiastical parish: Dawley
Town: Dawley Magna
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Madeley
Sub-registration district: Dawley
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 1855
Folio: 129A
Page Number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Boden 29
Ellen Boden 28
Wm Boden 9
Enock Boden 6
Robert Boden 3
Mary Ann Boden 1
Mary Boden 74


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1855; Folio: 129A; Page: 27; GSU roll: 542878.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts are that William (and maybe Enoch) are Ellens before marriage--so are named "Hazledine" and that the 1 year old Mary Ann is the same Mary Ann (Cresswell) that William is boarding with in 1911 census (ie his half-sister --or full sister if Edward was the father)

Barbara x

births ?

Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
Hazeldine William Madeley 18 97

===========================================


Births Mar 1855

Hazledine Enoch Madeley 6a 571
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Births Mar 1858
Boden Robert Madeley 6a 590

------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure which Birth index is for the right Mary Ann

Births Jun 1859

BODEN Mary Ann Madeley 6a 605

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1859

BODEN Mary Ann Madeley 6a 560


Barbara x

Will pop these other census on for the rest of the children

1871 England Census 1871 England Census
Name: Ellen Boden
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Edward Boden
Gender: Female
Where born: Dawley, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Dawley
Ecclesiastical parish: Malinslee
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Madeley
Sub-registration district: Dawley
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 203
Piece: 2749
Folio: 57
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Boden 40
Ellen Boden 38
William Boden 19
Enoch Boden 16
Robert Boden 13
Mary A Boden 11
Bertha Boden 6
Edward Boden 5
Brooke Boden 4
Daniel Boden 2
George Horeis 28


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2749; Folio: 57; Page: 37; GSU roll: 835398.


===================================================
1881--moved to Derby
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Edward BODEN Head M Male 50 Benthall, Shropshire, England Iron Moulder
Ellen BODEN Wife M Female 48 Dawley, Shropshire, England
Edward BODEN Son Male 16 Dawley, Shropshire, England Labourer Foundry
Brake BODEN Son Male 14 Dawley, Shropshire, England Roll Server At Wagons Rlwy Station
Daniel BODEN Son Male 12 Dawley, Shropshire, England Schoolboy
Francis BODEN Son Male 6 Wednesbury, Stafford, England Schoolboy
Jabez BODEN Grand Son Male 4 Wednesbury, Stafford, England Schoolboy

Susannah WOMBWELL Lodger W Female 53 Caxton Lodge, Nottingham, England Formerly Musicians Wife
Arthur WOMBWELL Lodger Male 16 Sheffield, York, England Wood Sawyer
Herbert SMITH Lodger Male 17 Derby, Derby, England Silk Dyer
Thomas SWINDLES Lodger W Male 69 Pawich, Derby, England Genl Labr


Source Information:
Dwelling 4 Court 4 Bag Lane
Census Place Derby St Peter, Derby, England
Family History Library Film 1341811
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3394 / 14
Page Number 22
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barbara x

Barbara - do you not sleep? I just saw the post times!!

There is a huge amount of information here and I am gradually getting my head around it - thanks again for you input.

I have been looking at more pages of the censuses trying to picture the route the enumerator took when walking around conducting the census. The reason being that I cannot find any reference to South Street in Nottingham. But by following his route, starting from Hockley, I think I have cracked it. I believe that what was once called South Street, is now called Lennox Street. I think that the addresses in the 1871 and 1881 censuses, 13 South St and then 13 Lennox St, are actually the same address.

Also, in reference to the marriage certificate between Ernest and Eliza which said Ernest was illegitimate. The address given was Cherry Place. Well, Cherry Place was just around the corner from South Street and it was taken in on the same census form i refer to above which started at Hockley

With regard to Beatrice Boden at age 20 living with the Taylors. I keep bumping into that record. It is possible that is the right one. The family have confirmed to me that she was in service and it is believe she was pregnant when she got married. We know also, that before she married she lived at Debdale Lane in Mansfield but I cannot find that in the records.

Snap Wayne, I thought the same thing about Lennox and South Street. ---but as i don't know the area i wasn't sure,

I couldn't get to sleep last night, so just went for look on the census --- I went searching for the Swann / Carter "link" I'm sure there must be one,

And then looked for BODEN / Hazeldine and found the above link. Not sure if its the right one for you though,?

Barbara x

I actually work in an office which is on Heathcote Street in Nottingham. Lennox Street is about 3 minutes walk from here so I can picture the route. Most of the addresses he mentions in the census don't exist anymore, but Hockley does which is what gave me a starting point. As the guy would be on foot and had to do this all in one night his patch wouldn't have been massive. If you search for Hockley and Lennox Street in Nottingham on Google maps you can imagine the guy walking around that square route taking in all the 'yards', 'courts' and 'places' on the way.

I still can't get my head around the Boden / Hazeldine thing though. It feels like we're heading in the right direction, but the name change from Hazeldine to Boden happens a generation too early to explain why Beatrice's first three kids had records showing mmn of Boden and the rest were Hazeldine.

My thoughts were, If William (Beatrices father) was born Hazeldine--but was then "brought up" from a young age by Mr Boden --as his son---then William may have used Boden more than he used the name Hazeldine.

Beatrice married as Boden ---maybe that was the "family name" most used, and just MAYBE she didn't know she should actually be called Hazeldine untill after her father died.---this would then explain why some of her childrens birth index states MMN Boden and the later ones say MMN Hazeldine .

(Remember, Wayne, things were not "talked about" then, as openly as they are now---My Grandmother chased me with her stick, when I dared to ask why my oldest uncle had a differant name to my dad and his other younger brother !! I was about 5 years old, and that was in the 1950's, (the simple answer was that she had been married before , but I didn't find that out till a few years after!!) I learnt how to run that day though LOL !!)


Maybe Williams Death index ??

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about William Hazeldine Name: William Hazeldine
Birth Date: abt 1851
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1916
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 85

===============================================

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941
about William Hazeldine

Name: William Hazeldine
Probate Date: 6 Dec 1916
Death Date: 30 Oct 1916
Death Place: Derbyshire, England
Registry: Derby


Of New Houghton, Derbyshire, Bricklayer, died 30th October 1916 Probate to William James Hazeldine , Bricklayer. Effects £73.1s

Barbara x

Have you got this for your Beatrice in the 1901 census ?

1901 England Census 1901 England Census
Name: Beatrice Boden
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Boden
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Derby
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Derby
Sub-registration district: Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 200
Piece: 3213
Folio: 21
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Thompson 68 --head--wid--shropshire
William Boden 49 --son--wid---shropshire
Bertha Boden 20 ---Shrewsbury
Caroline Boden 15 ---Derbyshire
Ernest Boden 13 ---Derbyshire
Beatrice Boden 10 ---Birmingham
Alfred Boden 7 ---Birmingham
Maria Boden 13 --Derbyshire-


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3213; Folio: 21; Page: 34.


Maybe death index for Edward ??
Deaths Dec 1891

Boden Edward 60 Derby 7b 303
=============================================

maybe the ReMarriage For Ellen??

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>Boden Ellen Basford 7b 245
COOPER Samuel John F Basford 7b 245
Offiler Annie Basford 7b 245
>>>Thompson Thomas Basford 7b 245


Barbara x