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Hi All,

Need a bit of help with my grandmother Mary Elizabeth Jackson please.

I know her birthday was 9th July and, according to her marriage to John Kerr in Barrow in Furness in 1912 she was 20, so should have been born in 1892. Her father, according to the marriage was Thomas Jackson a labourer, and a witness at her marriage was Thomas Jackson, but I don't know if this was her father or brother. Her death was registered in 1974 in Ulverston, and the birth date given was 9/7/1892, but my mother may not have got the year right.

I also know from earlier memories she claimed to have gone into "farm service" in the Lancaster/Lancashire area after leaving school aged 12, and I believe she was the oldest child in the family, so could this rule out Thomas being her brother (but not sure if a witness had to be of a certain age)?

I have no idea what her mother's name was, & I can't find her on 1901/1911 census. Can anyone suggest anything, or find the family please?

added: in later life she was always called Lizzie.

Many thanks
Flip

What about this one?

1901 England Census
about Mary E Jackson
Name: Mary E Jackson
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Jackson
Mother's name: Frances Jackson
Gender: Female
Where born: Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Dalton in Furness
Ecclesiastical parish: Dalton in Furness St Mary
Town: Dalton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Ulverston
Sub-registration district: Dalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 141
Piece: 5338
Folio: 46
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Jackson 60
Frances Jackson 56
William Jackson 24
Roble Jackson 18
Mary E Jackson 9

Hi Ginny,

Many thanks for looking, I'm not sure about this one as I remember her saying she was the oldest, and these parents seem a bit old. Though they may be her grand-parents, but I thought she was at home until she left school at 12, and was expected to look after younger siblings. I only vaguely remember her saying she walked miles during Michaelmas etc to get home for a day when in farm service - which I believe was near Lancaster.

Thought I had her cracked, father John Hutchinson Jackson on 1911 census, but the marriage cert has thrown me!

atb
Flip

Bit of a long shot as birth area not quite right but only 40 miles away

1911 Census
Name Mary Elizabeth Jackson
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Condition Single
Gender F
Age 19
Estimated Year of Birth 1892
Occupation General Servant Domestic
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Manchester Lancashire
Enumerator Information
Address 4 Oakfield Road Hudds
Parish Huddersfield
Town Hudds
Type of Building Private House
Number of Rooms Nine
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN26307 RG78PN1521 RD495 SD8 ED22 SN99
Administrative County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Registration District Huddersfield
Registration Sub District Huddersfield
Enumeration District 22

Do you have the address she was living at when she married?

K

Hi all, thanks for this info & help. Sorry there was no address on the marriage certificate, she was married 4/12/1912 at St George's Barrow in Furness, it just said "of this parish", John Kerr was of St James parish, Barrow, which would tie up with his parents address in Hindpool Road.

One of the reasons I got the wrong family was that a Mary Elizabeth Jackson (father John Hutchinson Jackson) was living in St Georges parish in 1911, he was a church warden there, and she was of the right age. I assumed (wrongly now I have the marriage certificate) that this was the right family, so am back to the drawing board.

added: don't know if this is relevant as I can't find a connection, but my mother remembers a Bob Thompson living with them when she was young - I think she said he was actually her uncle, but could have been her cousin. He married someone called Florence as I remember visiting them as a child. There is no Thompson connection on the Kerr side that I can find.

Again, don't know if this is relevant, but I've found a birth on Lancashirebmd for a Mary Elizabeth Jackson, born Q3/1892 at St Peters Preston, mmn Jackson - so trying to look for a later marriage Jackson/Thompson, as maybe Bob was her brother.

I wonder - Edit maybe not Mary Dumphey is listed as mother in law

1901

Name: Mary E Thompson
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Thompson
Mother's name: Maggie Thompson
Gender: Female
Where born: Preston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Barrow in Furness
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Barrow in Furness
Sub-registration district: Barrow in Furness
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 206
Piece: 4012
Folio: 126
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Thompson 32
Maggie Thompson 28
Mary E Thompson 8
Martha Thompson 2
Mary Dumphey 54 Mother in law

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
BIDDULPH Reuben Barrow F. 8e 1511
Jackson Margaret Barrow F. 8e 1511
Thompson Thomas Barrow F 8e 1511
Warton Mary Ann Barrow F 8e 1511
WORTON Mary Ann Barrow F. 8e 1511

Don't know if I'm on the right track, she named her father as Thomas Jackson on her marriage certificate, a labourer and didn't say he was deceased.

I'm really not sure where Bob Thompson comes into the equation, they are just very distant memories, but I do remember Bob & Florrie Thompson living in Barrow and my mother saying Bob lived with them when she was a child. I think I remember her saying he was her uncle, despite the fact he wasn't than much older than her (she was born 1913).

Sorry - I misunderstood and thought that Mary E lived with Bob

K

No, don't be sorry it was me that wasn't clear, Bob lived with Mary E and John Kerr as a child, I think he was related to Mary E. But I'm not sure whether he was her brother or nephew, nor even how old he was.

Wouldn't it be great to turn back the clock and ask these questions? I though Lizzie would be the easiest to trace, I have photos of her, went to her funeral, know where she lived etc, but know nothing about her past! Other than I thought she was the only grandparent from Barrow in Furness. The others, even though they died before I was born are easy in comparison, even though they come from Scotland, Wales & Cambridge!

I don't know if you know when Bob died - I found this and a possible match in 1911 but I don't think it helps

Name: Robert Thompson
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1900
Date of Registration: Dec 1990
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Barrow In Furness
Inferred County: Cumbria
Volume: 1
Page: 119

THOMPSON, Hugh Head Married M 42 1869 Steel Band Sawyer County of Belfast Ireland Down Resident VIEW
THOMPSON, Ellen Jane Wife Married
15 years F 34 1877 County of Belfast Ireland Down Resident VIEW
THOMPSON, Joseph Wilson Finley Son Single M 12 1899 School Lancs County of Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Robert Son Single M 11 1900 School Lancs County of Barrow in Furness Lancs VIEW
THOMPSON, Adam Alexander Son Single M 8 1903 Lancs County of Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Sarah Daughter Single F 6 1905 Lancs County of Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Wilhelmina Daughter Single F 3 1908 Lancs County of Barrow in Furness VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
25659 Reference:
RG14PN25659 RG78PN1473 RD482 SD1 ED9 SN198

Registration District:
Barrow in Furness Sub District:
Barrow in Furness Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Barrow in Furness

Address:
64 Sutherland St Barrow in Furness County:
Lancashire

hi, sorry we had visitors so just got back to this.

I'm pretty sure Bob died before my mother (she died 1988) as we went to his funeral, but I can't remember when that was. His wife Florence (Florrie) died earlier than him, she was diabetic and lost both legs before her death - probably in the early 1970s.

I wonder if Bob was his real name, there is a John R Thompson born in 1910 and a John R Thompson married a Florence Payne in 1933 (Barrow), but it is registry office or registrar attended. If he was really a John, then that would be a problem living with John Kerr & Mary E as their son was also a John.

This could all be on the wrong track, as I'm trying to find Mary Elizabeth Jackson, born 9/7/1892+/- a year, but she always celebrated her birthday on 9th July. I thought she was local to Barrow, but who knows, I've found a few other surprises along the way with the other grandparents.

Don't have anyone left to ask, hence the appeal for help.

Many thanks for looking/searching
Flip

Interesting but maybe a red herring the John R Thompson you refer to above appears to be the son of the Thomas and Maggie Thompson I posted above in 1901.

I found the family below in 1911 They are listed as being married 15 years which ties in with the marriage in 1896. I wonder if the reference to Mary Dumfrey as mother in law is a mistake. I can't see her in earlier years

1911

THOMPSON, Thomas Head Married M 43 1868 General Labourer Millomroth Westmorland VIEW
THOMPSON, Magratt Wife Married
15 years F 41 1870 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Martha Daughter F 13 1898 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Thomas Son M 7 1904 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Sarah Ellen Daughter F 5 1906 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, Maragret Daughter F 2 1909 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
THOMPSON, John Robert Son M 0 (2 MONTH) 1911 Lancashire Barrow in Furness VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
25661 Reference:
RG14PN25661 RG78PN1473 RD482 SD1 ED11 SN126

Registration District:
Barrow in Furness Sub District:
Barrow in Furness Enumeration District:
11 Parish:
Barrow in Furness

Address:
64 Arthur St Barrow-In-Furness County:
Lancashire

Many thanks K - I've been looking at this family and should have posted earlier that I think you are on to something.

There is a birth reg Preston Q3/1892 for Mary Elizabeth Jackson, mmn Jackson - I've just ordered the birth certificate to see if the birth date ties up. There's also a marriage for Margaret Jackson to Thomas Thompson in Barrow Q2/1896, which I will check out in the parish records.

There's a death reg Barrow for Margaret Thompson Q1, 1916 (age 45), which could explain why the youngest child went to live with Lizzie, and be called Bob (there were already 2 Johns in the household).

I've been trying to find the Mary Dumphey marriage or her on other census but no luck so far, so I just don't know where she fits in, have tried from both sides of the family (in case it was Margaret that gave the info to the census man) but can't get anywhere other than find a possible death in Barrow 1923, but the age is wrong (81).

Any more help greatly appreciated!

I also think it may fit. I always try to be cautious!!

In 1911 Thomas Thompson is listed as a labourer which fits with the father's occupation on Lizzie's marraige cert. Mary E was also born prior to his marriage. I wonder if it was a second marriage for Maggie/Margaret.

Glad you have ordered the certs. Will look for them pre marriage if haymaking doesn't start.

I can't see Mary in 1911 but this could be her death

Deaths Sep 1923 (>99%)
DUMPHEY Mary 81 Barrow F. 8e 785

I doubt it was a 2nd marriage, if this is the right family I think Lizzie may have been born before her mother married. I've also found her possible mother Margaret Jackson in Barrow, father John & mother Martha on the 1871/1881 census (although the GR census for 1871 is illegible), but can't locate any of the family after this.

Wonder if her father was declared as Thomas Jackson on her marriage to save face, and he was the witness at her marriage. If she was the oldest child don't think it could have been one of her siblings?

Okay, here's so more info to check out. Some of it may look promising but only if the year of birth for your grandmother is out by a few more (earlier) years. The other bits seem to fit though. I think the areas are about 50 miles apart.

In 1891 census, MARY ELIZABETH JACKSON b. 1887 Rainow, Cheshire living with Father THOMAS PETER JACKSON (farmer labourer - fits occupation on marriage cert?) b. approx 1862 Macclesfield and mother CHARLOTTE ANN JACKSON. Also with brother JAMES E JACKSON b. 1889 (confirms Mary as the oldest child?)

By 1901 census, MARY ELIZABETH JACKSON b. 1887 is listed as a Domestic Farm Servant - aged 14yrs old (would possibly seem to fit with her memories?!) At the same time her father (as detailed above) was listed as a WIDOWER living with his own parents THOMAS (aged 72yrs) and MARY (aged 63yrs) plus James E Jackson (as above) and more later children THOMAS JACKSON (b. 1893) and JOSEPH LEONARD JACKSON (b. 1897).

I can see a death for Charlotte Jackson in Macclesfield, Cheshire in Q3 1897 (she would obviously have died somewhere between 1891 and 1901 - and I wonder if she died in childbirth after having Joseph Leonard?)

Anyway if this is the right family (maybe some of the earlier names will mean something so you can confirm) then someone on Ancestry has got your grandmother in their tree. They have all of the above dates etc confirmed plus a christening date note of 1st May 1887. So not sure how possible it is that the birth is 5 years different?


Further, I think your logic on John Robert Thompson being Bob (probably Bob after the Robert in the middle name) with that marriage is correct as there is a FLORENCE THOMPSON died Q2 1978 with d.o.b of 23.06.13 (Barrow Vol 1, Page 0099). Unfortunately the death I can see for the person I thought was John Robert Thompson is not until 1990 so if it is right you and your mother went to the funeral then there must be another birth earlier than 1913. There are a couple around 1905 but of course it is difficult to confirm with mothers maiden name etc. Struggling with person of that name dying in 1980's.

Hope some of this helps
Keeley

Thanks Keeley,

I'm not so sure on the Cheshire angle, I recall her saying she walked back to Barrow, and although it's only 50 or so miles as the crow flies, that takes in crossing water, and is much further in reallity.

I may be wrong about Bob dying before my mother, it may have been Florrie's funeral I went to with her and not Bob's, memories play tricks I'm afraid. You probably have the right death in 1990, a couple of years after my mothers, but I wasn't around here in the early 1990s.

Funny thing, before I started researching the tree I always though my grandmother was called Thompson, it wasn't untl I found her marriage & children that I discovered she was actually a Jackson. So I think it is starting to make sense of a sorts, I'll let you know if the certificates pan out.

Many thanks
Flip