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The elusive Mr Joseph Carter, a great great great grandad who was 22 on his marriage certificate in Manchester in 1883. But I can't find any birth for him in GR. He was a Dyer.
His father Michael is proving just as elusive, he was deceased by 1883.
For now a big step would be to find Joseph, if someone could kindly check on one of the other sites please?
Thanking you again..

Hi,
What was his fathers occupation please? ( on marriage certificate)

Regards Vera

Hello Joe,

I LOVE your sense of humour,

I LOVE your avatar (Is that really you ???)

I just hope that you can assure me that this is NOT linked to either of your 'Morris threads'??

Off to cook Dinner - will be back soon !

Dea Xxx

who did he marry
where was he born
maddie

Thank you Dea, sometimes I get a lucky word play that's all.

Joseph's father's occupation is given as Tailor on the certificate, Joseph given as living at Harrison street.

He married Catherine Burns on 23rd June 1883, spinster, Factory Operative
from New Butler Street - Her Dad was Charles Burns, a shoemaker.

Thanks again.

ps , Dea yes the avatar is me, but it is quite heavily photoshopped to add shadows and hide blemishes. I also use Nivea.

for info
1891
CARTER, Joseph Head Married M 30 1861 Labourer Painters
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Catherine Wife Married F 28 1863
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Maria Daughter F 7 1884
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Ethel Daughter F 4 1887
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
RG number:
RG12 Piece:
3232 Folio:
116 Page:
22

Registration District:
Manchester Sub District:
Ancoats Enumeration District:
26 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St James the Less

Civil Parish:
Manchester Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
12, Spinner Street, Manchester County:
Lancashire

Maddie, I am sorry, I should have mentioned that I had found this Census entry, I just dug it out from an old folder. I should have said I am more after births so I can hopefully get his cert and Mum's maiden name... :-S

Joe. born in the 1860.s his birth may not have been registered :-(
His birth should show on FreeBMD IF he was registered

Do the witnesses on the marriage cert hold any clue .ie could they be family

nearest i can find
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: CARTER, Joseph
Registration District: Help Salford
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: Help 8D
Page No: Help 9

maddie

1871 ????

Trying to find this family in 1861..

mothers occupation dressmaker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARTER, Mary Head F 46 1825 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Charles Son M 26 1845 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Robert Son M 19 1852 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Nathaniel Son M 17 1854 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Emily Daughter F 13 1858 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Joseph Son M 9 1862 Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3994 Folio:
76 Page:
35

Registration District:
Chorlton Sub District:
Chorlton upon Medlock Enumeration District:
46 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Chorlton on Medlock Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
Harrop Street, Chorlton On Medlock, Manchester County:
Lancashire

Regards Vera

????
dont know where heywood is?

Name: Joseph Henry Carter
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 03 Apr 1859
Baptism/Christening Place: Heywood, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Michell Carter
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Betty
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01640-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 2113193
Reference Number: yr 1859-1871 p 439
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

from ancestry
View Record Joseph Carter Apr-May-Jun 1863 Manchester Lancashire
View Record Joseph Carter Jan-Feb-Mar 1863 Manchester Lancashire

1861
Name: Michael Carter
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Bridget Carter
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Durham St Nicholas
Town: Durham
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:Clothier & Outfitter !!

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Durham
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 3743
Folio: 97
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Carter 52
Bridget Carter 38
John Carter 20
Mary Ann Carter 17
Michael Carter 13
Bridget Carter 11
Catharine Carter 9
Joseph Carter 4
Winnifred Carter 1



Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3743; Folio: 97; Page: 16; GSU roll: 543180.

well Heywood is part of Manchester
Heywood (pop. 28,000) is a town within the Metropolitan Borough of Rochdale, in Greater Manchester, England.[2] It lies on the south bank of the River Roch and is 2.4 miles (3.9 km) east of Bury, 3.7 miles (6.0 km) west-southwest of Rochdale, and 7.4 miles (11.9 km) north of the city of Manchester. The town of Middleton lies to the south, whilst to the north is the Cheesden Valley, open moorland, and the Pennines. Heywood's nickname is Monkey Town, a name with unclear origin, but known to date as far back as 1857.[1]

Maddie, the certs haven't arrived yet, my Mum posted them to me , she just gave me the main info over the phone.

So does that mean it could be either your 17:41 or your 17:48 for the birth year? 1861 or 1863?

Vera your 17:47 looks very possible as the father was deceased by 1883,
His age fits too on this and Chorlton on Medlock is the right area....

safc, Heywood is quite central too, possible for the area, and the Dad's name fits, but just the age is a bit out.

1861 England Census about Mary Carter
Name: Mary Carter
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 2889
Folio: 97
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Carter 36
John H Carter 19
Robert Carter 9
Nathaniel Carter 7
Henrietta Carter 5
Emily Carter 3
Frederick Carter 1

Widow

wow Shirley that surely is a tempting one, but Durham??
'
I wonder if families would have moved that far afield in those days, would Manchester's industrial might have had such a pull??

The Dad's profession and name is perfect...the age, giving Joseph at 4 in 1861 , takes it four or so years before what it should be....but still....

I wonder??

Helen, if we could find a marriage for a Mary Carter and a Michael Carter

I think we might just possibly be able to say that we have GOT CARTER!

well there is this ????
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: CARTER, Michael
Registration District: Help Rochdale
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: Help 8E
Page No: Help 75
MarriageFinder™: Michael Carter married one of the following people Help
WOODHEAD, Mary Ann view record