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Yes Dea...........i have my Grandmother's birth certificate, naming her Mother....Mary Saunders ....

She appears here on the 1891 census...



1891 England Census
about Charles Masters
Name: Charles Masters
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Eling, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Southampton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Masters 30 (Head) Single
Susannah Barry 26 (Mistress!) Not sure it state's married or unmarried!
Alfred Masters 10
Charles Masters 8
Alice E Masters 4 (Alice was actully born Ellen Alice Masters)


I really appreciate your time Dea and for your time Janet.


T'is all so confusing to say the least! Grrrr! :-S

Just been looking at the image for the above 1891 census and the children are listed as
Alfred Masters
Charles ----do---
Alice E BARRY

Just wondering whether you have the right census?

Alice E was named as 'Barry' on the 1891 - was that an error??

Dea x

Hi Londonbelle and Dea............yes i believe that is correct census and the surname "Barry" is an error.

My Grandmother was born Ellen Alice Masters ..1887 South Stoneham....County of Southampton, Hampshire.

Father Charles Masters.........Mother Mary Masters Nee Saunders.

My Father always told me that my Grandmother preferred the name Alice.


I have my Grandmothers Will which states........

Ellen Alice........otherwise Alice Helen.

I wish i could just give up on it.........but i can't!

I really am grateful to everyone's contribution to this thread.
Thankyou and sorry!! PH. x

Nudging this up for the "Night Fairies!"

In the hope that i will wake in the morning and it will all have been sorted before my very eyes!

Yes i know..........."Dream On" you say!! ;-)

What was Charles' occupation and the address from that Birth cert please?

Dea x

Bricklayers Labourer.


Adalaide Road, St Denys, South Stoneham.


Morning Dea.

Good morning Prickles.............. I am 'back on the case' as you can see but I don't hold out much hope at the moment.

Will come back with anything I might find (or not ??).

Dea x

Thankyou Dea............ive still got 6 hairs left on my head!! :-\

Could Mary Saunders have been married before but never married Charles as 1st husband was still alive.

She would still have been nee Saunders on birth reg but would she have died in 1st husbands name.
Or is that her death in South Stoneham as Mary Masters in 1888,have you got that death cert to see if it is her?

Clutching at straws now.

Maryb

Ooooo............I never thought of that Maryb!!

Actually i had forgotton all about that death entry.

The reason i didn't send for that certificate is because apart from telling me that she died...........it wont give me any other information.

But hey! I am going to send for it anyway..........just in case!

Thankyou Mary.

I have been looking for a first marriage for her but haven't found anything certain (there are possibles)

Also, I wondered if Charles may already have been married and that is why they didn't marry ?

Again, possibles but nothing with any proof.

Good idea to send for that death cert.

I will keep looking....................

Dea x

Any house number on that Adelaide Road address on birth cert please?

Dea x

the 'Berry' connection - ?


Gilbert Masters on original -


Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BERRY Harriett S. Stoneham 2c 126
Masters Gilbert S. Stoneham 2c 126




1891

319 MARTERS, Elbert Head Married M 50 1841 Caner
Lyndhurst
Hampshire VIEW
319 MARTERS, Hariett Wife Married F 48 1843 Laundress
South Stoneham
Hampshire VIEW
319 BARY, Sarah Daughter Single F 18 1873
South Stoneham VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

320 BLEW, John Head Widower M 81 1810 Agricultural Labourer
Bishopstoke
Hampshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
926 Folio:
89 Page:
52

Registration District:
South Stoneham Sub District:
South Stoneham Enumeration District:
15 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Dennis

Civil Parish:
South Stoneham Municipal Borough:
Southampton Address:
81, Adelaide Road, South Stoneham, Southampton County:
Hampshire




1881

KERLEY, Alfred Head Married M 27 1854 Painter
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
KERLEY, Emily Wife Married F 21 1860
Portsmouth
Hampshire VIEW
KERLEY, Alfred Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Portsmouth
Hampshire VIEW
KERLEY, James Son Single M 2 1879
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
KERLEY, William Son Single M 0 1881
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW


BERRY, Harriett Lodger Head Widow F 39 1842 Laundress
Portswood
Hampshire VIEW
BERRY, William Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar
Portswood
Hampshire VIEW
BERRY, Sarah Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Portswood
Hampshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1209 Folio:
89 Page:
22

Registration District:
Southampton Sub District:
Southampton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Southampton St Mary Municipal Borough:
Address:
22, Edward St, Southampton St Mary County:
Hampshire



1881

MASTERS, George Head Widower M 79 1802 Chair & Cabinet Maker
Salisbury
Wiltshire VIEW
>>>>>MASTERS, Gilbert Son Single M 41 1840 Chair Maker
Lyndhurst
Hampshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1209 Folio:
106 Page:
14

Registration District:
Southampton Sub District:
Southampton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Southampton St Mary Municipal Borough:
Address:
13, St Marys Bds, Southampton St Mary County:
Hampshire

Drattt Choccy,

I have just looked at every house on Adelaide Road and also found Gilbert and Harriet with 'their' daughter Sarah at No. 81 ! (and it was a VERY big road!)
:-D

Never mind, at least we have it.

I also found at No. 15 A Walter Saunders aged 28 with his wife Emma and 2 children.

I wonder if they also might be connected?

Dea x

Sorry Choccy but Gilbert Masters is not connected to my family.

There is not a house numbe on the certificate Dea.
Double dratt!!

double double drat !

You can have a chocolate flake on top of that though!! ;-)

1891 Susannah barry ,Susan Berry in 1901.

1881 40,Cossack Street D 18 > 24 Southampton
Walter Barry 1857 Dock labourer
Susan Barry born Eling married 1880

Susan Barry born @ 1863 died 1910 Southampton.

1880 marriage Walter Henry Barry to either Susan Pythian or Susannah Weaver.
The other male is William Henry Greenway.
1881 William H Greenway in hospital in Hound hampshire.
Susan greenway says born Liverpool is also in Hound D 3 > 4.

Susannah Weaver born 1860 in Eling is down as Susan Weaver with parents in 1871 Southampton St mary D 15 > 41
parents William Weaver 1823 a Mariner and mary Ann 1833 born Eling.

So I think it was deffinately Susannah Weaver who married Walter Barry in 1880 and she is with Charles Masters 1891/1901.

Still no further with Mary Saunders.
I don't think Charles married Susan/Susannah either but he is still stated as widow in 1911 when he is with his daughter.

Could it be that alfred William and charles 1883 have different mothers!!

Maryb

Hi again Maryb...........thankyou for hanging on in here.

Even though it is not my main concern, i do believe that Alfred William and Charles's mother is Mary Saunders.

Alfred William is 1 mnth old on the 1881 census with parents Charles and Mary and 10 yrs old on the 1891..........along with Charles age 8...........born before Alice E (Ellen Alice) on the 1891 census.

And so i don't think there is any doubt about the fact that they all share the same mother.

I sent for the possible death certificate of Mary this morning...........but i don't think i will hold my breath in anticiaption of any new clues!!

Grrr!! I really do appreciate your time Mary. x