Find Ancestors

(Also posted on the Great War Forum)

Help!!

I am trying to confirm the service history of Francis George Rand (aka Frank) b circa 1893 Potters Bar herts.

the 1901 Census records the family as living in West Mill Cottages, Therfield, Herts and the family group consists of:

Father William Rand b circa 1867 Therfield Herts Farm bailiff
Mother Annie Rand b circa 1866 Therfield Herts Wife
Brother William Rand b circa 1892 Watford, Herts Jeuvenile
Brother Percy Rand b circa 1895 Therfield Herts Jeuvenile
Brother Harry Rand b 1901 Paulswalden, Herts Jeuvenile

and our Francis George Rand (aka Frank)b circa 1893 Potters Bar, Herts

We have a copy of his medal card.

Medal card of Rand, Francis G
Corps Regiment No Rank
East Kent Regiment 19100 Private
Worcestershire Regiment 40363 Private

I reckon his service history is possibly as follows;

11/12/15 - Enlisted to East kents possibly as part of Derby Scheme
13/6/16 - Mobilised possibly trained in Dover
11/10/16 - Embarked France posted from 38 Div Inf Trg Depot to 8 Bn East Kents
12/10/16 - 8 Bn East Kents
22/10/16 - Tx to Worc Regt possibly 4 Bn
25/10/16 - Arrived 4 Bn Worc Regt

Unfortunately because of where I am I can only access limited sites of the www. Is there a service record card (or any other record) in existance for either Francis George Rand or Frank Rand that can confirm the detail above and also perhaps give a discharge date.

Many thanks for any assistance.

As you are probably already aware approximately 70% of the UK WW1 service records were destroyed by fire in 1940. Unfortunately there does not appear to be a surviving service record for a Francis (Frank) Rand born in Hertfordshire c1893

Thanks Jonesey
if that is the case then other than medal cards is there any way I could confirm Francis George Rands (aka Franks) service history?
Iain

There is a WWI Medal Roll Index Card for him....

Name: Francis G Rand
Regiment or Corps: East Kent Regiment, Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 19100, 40363


Can send you the image via email if you PM me your addy

for info the family in 1911

RAND, William Thomas Head age 44 1867 Publican And Farmer Therfield Herts
RAND, Matilda Ann Wife Married 20 yrs
age 45 1866 Therfield Herts
RAND, Francis George Son Single age 18 1893 Farmer Son Assisting In The Business Potters Bar Herts
RAND, Harold Claud Son age 10 1901 School Bendish Herts
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
7543 Reference:
RG14PN7543 RG78PN369 RD135 SD2 ED9 SN10

Registration District:
Royston Sub District:
Royston Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Kelshall

Address:
The Crown Kelshall Royston County:
Hertfordshire

Iain,

As you know his service number(s) and the regiments he served in it might be possible to discover something if the regiments have a regimental museum.

Another possibility although unlikely to provide specific details for Frank are the regiments war diaries. Not sure whether they are likely to be held at the National Archive or the Imperial War Museum.

thanks jan, that's very useful

do you have this?
Name: Francis George Rand
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 Jan 1893
Christening Date: 2 Apr 1893
Christening Place: North Mimms, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: William Thomas Rand
Mother's Name: Matilda Ann

well done jan, many thanks

Iain do you want me to post other christening's?
1911 image says 5 children 2 died

Jan, if you have them that would be very kind,
thankyou
Iain

Name: William Charles Rand
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 31 May 1891
Christening Date: 19 Aug 1891
Christening Place: Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: William Thomas Rand
Mother's Name: Matilda Ann

Name: Percy Allan Rand
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 23 Dec 1894
Christening Date: 3 Feb 1895
Christening Place: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: William Thomas Rand
Mother's Name: Matilda Ann


Name: Stanley John Rand
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 Dec 1898
Christening Date: 2 Apr 1899
Christening Place: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: William Thomas Rand
Mother's Name: Matilda Ann


Name: Harold Claude Rand
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1906
Christening Date: 6 May 1906
Christening Place: Kelshall, Hertfordshire, England
Father's Name: William Thomas Rand
Mother's Name: Matilda Ann

Jan,

whilst on the same family thread I have been trying for ages without success to confirm a wifes maiden name and husbands christian name in the Rand tree pre 1841.

What I have that is confirmed from bottom to top is:

Harold (1901) Percy (1895) Francis George (aka Frank) (1893) William (1892) Rand all issue of:

William Thomas Rand (1866) (and Annie (Matilda) Leete)

William Thomas Rand (1866) is the son of:

William Rand (1829) (and Eliza J Gatward)

Now I know from census returns that William Rand (1829 Therfield Herts) is the son of an Ann (hopefully Goodchild) b c 1795 Baldock and again (hopefully although I'm using trees from Genes members here) a James Rand b 1776 from Buckland. Is there any way of confirming who the parents of William Rand (b 1829 Therfield) are?

Many thanks fopr your help and patience

Iain

going back through census yrs
1891
Name: William T Rand
[William Thomas Rand]
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie Rand
Gender: Male
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Name: Annie Rand
[Matilda Ann Leete]
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William T Rand
Gender: Female
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

1881

name: William Rand
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Rand
Mother's Name: Eliza J. Rand
Gender: Male
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Hay Green
Occupation: Farmers Son

Name: William Rand
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza J. Rand
Gender: Male
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Hay Green
Condition as to marriage: Married


Household Members:
Name Age
William Rand 49
Eliza J. Rand 36
William Rand 14
Annie Rand 12
Charles Rand 10
Frederick Rand 8
Francis Rand 2

1871
Name: William Rand
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza J Rand
Gender: Male
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
Town: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Royston
Sub-registration district: Royston


Household Members:
Name Age
William Rand 41
Eliza J Rand 26
William T Rand 4
Sarah A Rand 2
Charles Rand 8 Months

1861 this matches with who you say mother is
Name: William Rand
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann Rand
Gender: Male
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England



Name: Ann Rand
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

1851
ame: William Rand
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann Rand
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England


Name: Ann Rand
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1798
Relation: Head
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Therfield, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

1841
Name: William Rand
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Therfield
Hundred: Odsey
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Royston
Sub-registration district: Royston


household Members: note 1841 census ages were rounded up/down to nearest 5 i.e Ann's Nathan's Ann's may not be the right age
Name Age
Ann Rand 45
Nathan Rand 20
Ann Rand 15
William Rand 12
Nathaniel Rand 8
Martha Rand 6

I would think the information may have then come from this site http://www.familysearch.org/ a free site you can search but if it is a submitted entry then it means the person has not checked original records before entering it, this below is Extracted marriage record so has been checked but i haven't found any christening records yet for the children to confirm these are the right parents

JAMES RAND
Pedigree


Marriages:
Spouse: ANN GOODCHILD
Family
Marriage:
13 OCT 1808 Therfield, Hertford, England

got to go out now will take another look later

Cheers jan

some good stuff there. A lot of my previous work hinges on confirming who the parents of William Rand (b 1829 Therfield) are. Like I said ive got a lot of leads from GR but I'm not convinced they are all correct?

I'm really hoping they are Annie Rand (nee Goodchild) b 1795 Baldock and James Rand b c 1776 Buckland

many thanks

iain