Find Ancestors

OK - long shot.

Marriages Jun 1847
Brickell William Shaftesbury 8 173
Hatcher Elizabeth Shaftesbury 8 173
Huse James Shaftesbury 8 173
PETERS Elizabeth Shaftesbury 8 173
TAYLOR Edwin Shaftesbury 8 173 <<<<<
Warren Charlotte Shaftesbury 8 173 <<<<<

1871 England Census
Name: Edwin Taylor
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Charlotte Taylor <<<<<
Gender: Male
Where born: Shaftesbury, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street address: Bleke St

Registration district: Shaftesbury
Sub-registration district: Shaftesbury
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin Taylor 44 Cabinet Maker
Charlotte Taylor 44
Frederic Taylor 21
Emma Taylor 17
Ellen Taylor 15 - Dressmaker; <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Frances Taylor 13
Edward Taylor 12
Mary Taylor 10

Possibly where Edwina & Frances come from.

1861 England Census
Name: Edwin Taylor
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Charlotte Taylor
Gender: Male
Where born: Shaftesbury, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Shaftesbury Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Sarum
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street address: Bleke St

Occupation: scholar

Registration district: Shaftesbury
Sub-registration district: Shaftesbury
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin Taylor 36
Charlotte Taylor 38 cabinet maker
Edwin F Taylor 13
Frederic C Taylor 11
Emma C Taylor 7
Ellen J Taylor 5 <<<<<<
Frances M Taylor 4
Edwina Taylor 2
Mary Ann Taylor 3 Weeks
Sarah Coward 70
Frederic Warren 33


A little bit older than we were led to believe by her census records!
Births Jun 1855
Taylor Ellen Jane Shaftesbury 5a 230

Can someone check this out for where Frank was born?

1911:
CHAMLEY FRANK M 1882 29 Medway Kent
CHAMLEY CHARLOTTE F 1883 28 Medway Kent
CHAMLEY MURIEL F 1909 2 Medway Kent

Thanks,
Ozi

1911 census transcription details for: 142 Victoria Street Gillingham

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN3939 RG78PN150 RD47 SD2 ED10 SN397


Reg. District: Medway Sub District: Gillingham
Parish: Gillingham Enum. District: 10
Address: 142 Victoria Street Gillingham
County: Kent

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
CHAMLEY, Frank Head Married M 29 1882 Painter Royal Navy London Lambeth
CHAMLEY, Charlotte Wife Married
3 years F 28 1883 London Westminster
CHAMLEY, Muriel Daughter F 2 1909 London Padington

I'm more confused than ever. What was the father's occupation given as on the birth certs for the twins????

This is the marriage:
Name: Ellen Jane Taylor
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Spouse Name: Thomas John Vicary Occ:Compositor
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 23 Jun 1878
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Edwin Taylor Occ:Builder
Spouse Father Name: Thomas William Vicary Occ:Engineer

1881 Ancestry
Name: Thomas J. Vicary
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elizabeth Vicary
Gender: Male
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George Martyr
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 3 Townsend St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Printer Compositor
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 14a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Vicary 47
Thomas J. Vicary 22
Alfred A. Vicary 21
Charles Vicary 16
Arthur E. Vicary 15
Martha Vicary 41
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 524; Folio: 28; Page: 3;

Name: Thomas John Vicary
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1859
Baptism Date: 27 Mar 1859
Father's name: Thomas William Vicary
Mother's name: Elizabeth Vicary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Finsbury St Luke
Borough: Islington

I have no idea if this is the same person...
1901 census transcription details for: 34, Medora Road, Lambeth
RG number: RG13 Piece: 429 Folio: 29 Page: 3

Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: Brixton
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District: 32
Ecclesiastical District: St Matthias Upper Tulse Hill City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 34, Medora Road, Lambeth
County: London
VICERY, Thomas J Allen Head Married M 40 1861 Printers Reader
BromleyKent
VICERY, Elizabeth Wife Married F 33 1868
FinchleyMiddlesex
VICERY, Ernest Son Single M 13 1888 School
Hammersmith

???????
Name: Thomas John Vicary
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 50
District: St Albans
County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 357

Just leaving this one here:
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Noble Ernest Vicory
Name: Noble Ernest Vicory
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1879
Baptism Date: 14 Mar 1879
Father's name: Thomas James Vicory
Mother's name: Ellen Jane Vicory
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark

Looks like he died the same year.

Maureen

Just went to have lunch. Good work, Maureen.

Ozi

This one's confusing!!!
1891 census transcription details for: 388, Kennington Park Road, Lambeth
RG number: RG12 Piece: 398 Folio: 168 Page: 11

Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: Kennington First
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: St Mark Kennington City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 388, Kennington Park Road, Lambeth
County: London
DARRELL, Elizabeth Head Married F 28 1863
Ipswich Suffolk
DARRELL, Ernest Son M 4 1887
Ipswich Suffolk
VICARY, Thomas T(I think that's a J) A Cousin Married M 32 1859 Journalist
Kent Bromley


Maureen

Certainly looks like a J to me. Compare with Journalist for occupation. The tail goes under the line. The T in Thomas & Theophilus, also on the same page, sits on the line.

Ozi

1871 England Census
Name: Thomas J Vicarly
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elizabeth Vicarly
Gender: Male
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Vicarly 36 - Tinplate worker's wife
Thomas J Vicarly 12
Alfred A Vicarly 11
Charles Vicarly 6
Arthur E Vicarly 5

????
Marriages Jun 1857
Bex Frederick St Martin in the F 1a 596
Nicholls Elizabeth St Martin in the F 1a 596 <<<<<
POTTER Barbara St Martin in the F 1a 596
Vicary Thomas William St Martin in the F 1a 596 <<<<<

????
Births Mar 1859
VICARY Thomas John Mile End Old Town 1c 540

????
Births Jun 1860
VICARY Alfred Abercrombie Mile End 1c 486


MILE END OLD TOWN REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : London.
Created : 1.10.1857 (out of Stepney district).

For those looking for Thomas in 1901 in Ancestry, he's transcribed as Thomas J Alton King. It looks crazy, I know, but if you look at the image you'll see why.

Ozi

This is a possibility for Thomas and Elizabeth's son.

1911: MILITARY VICARY ERNEST 1886 25 Colchester Essex - born Hammersmith

Have you been in touch with Barry who also seems to have the twins on his tree?

Ozi

So this is my interpretation of your story.

Ellen Jane Taylor, born Shaftesbury c1855, married Thomas John Vicary in c Jun 1878. They had 3 children.

Births Dec 1878
Vicary Noble Ernest St. Saviour 1d 187 - died cJun 1879

Births Sep 1880
VICARY Frances Edwina W Lambeth 1d 353 - unknown fate
VICARY Francis Bryant W Lambeth 1d 353 - married Charlotte Collins 1907, and had Muriel (1908) and Francis B (1911).

By 1881 it is possible that the couple had already split up and Ellen (Jane) was working as a married, domestic Nurse in Lambeth. Thomas was also recorded as married, and back living with Mum, Elizabeth, and no sign of the twins.

1891 finds them still apart. Their son, Frances (Frank) was recorded as the adopted son of George Chamley c1835 Poona, India. George was formerly a Staff Clerk in the Royal Engineers and married a Charlotte Bussell in Weymouth, Dorset. Charlotte was still living, but apart from George, in 1891. There is no sign of Ellen or her daughter. It seems that Thomas is living with a cousin, Elizabeth Darrell and her son.

1900 George Chamley dies at Pancras and Ellen is recorded as his widow on the death cert.
Deaths Dec 1900
Chamley George 65 Pancras 1b 47

1901 finds Ellen Charmley as a widow living in St Pancras on her own. First wife of George, Charlotte, is living in Woolwich. Thomas Vicary is living in Lambeth with his wife Elizabeth & son. (It looks like the ones he was with in 1891.)

At this stage Ellen's death cannot be found. Thomas looks as if he died in 1908.
Deaths Jun 1908
Vicary Thomas John 50 St.Albans 3a 357

Therefore, it looks like your great-grandfather, Francis (Frank) Bryant Warren Vicary AKA Chamley was the legitimate son of Thomas John Allan Vicary and Ellen Jane Taylor. He was also the adopted son of George Chamley. Remember that adoption was a personal arrangement at that time. However Frank considers himself a Chamley at his marriage.
Marriages Jun 1907
CHAMLEY Frank Kensington 1a 288
COLLINS Charlotte Kensington 1a 288

It also seems that neither Ellen or Thomas were bigamists. No second marriage has been found as yet for either of them. Divorce was rare for ordinary people at that time. Most people split up and lived in a de facto relationship after that.

Ozi

Looks like Ellen's baptism at Shaftesbury Holy Trinity

1855; 29-May; Ellen Jane; daughter of Edwin & Charlotte; Taylor; Bleke St; cabinetmaker;

Lots of siblings also in the records. See http://www.opcdorset.org/ShaftesburyFiles/HolyTrinity/ShaftHTBaps1838-1863.htm

Just seeing if I can find a Bryant connection ( I have Bryant ancestors from Shaftesbury/Stalbridge )

1841 census Shaftesbury
Parsons Pool; 1; William TAYLOR; m; 35; tailor; y

Parsons Pool; ; Ann TAYLOR; f; 30; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; Edwin TAYLOR; m; 15; Apprentice; y

Parsons Pool; ; Thomas TAYLOR; m; 13; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; William TAYLOR; m; 12; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; Albert TAYLOR; m; 4; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; George TAYLOR; m; 2; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; Louisa TAYLOR; f; 10; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; Jane TAYLOR; f; 8; ; y

Parsons Pool; ; Helen TAYLOR; f; 6; ; y

Possible marriage for his parents in Shaftesbury
1823 William Taylor widower of St. Peter & Ann Blandford were married Oct-09

That looks like an excellent summation to me,Ozi!! Well done!

Maureen

I agree Oz, well done.
The only thing I would query is that I think the twins Francis and Frances are the ones living with Ann Vicary in 1881. There are no other twins with those names born at that time and place. Whether Ellen is Ann or Jane I don't know, but before her marriage Ellen was a dressmaker as she was again later. "Ann" was a milliner, fairly similar to dressmaker, whereas "Jane" was a nursemaid - a bit of a change of career.

Not found the Bryant link yet!
Katie

You are so right Katie. I missed that info completely! Thanks.

The only problem is Ellen/Ann's birthplace. It looks like she's trying to cover her tracks.

So 1881 should now read ...

By 1881 it is possible that the couple had already split up and Ellen (Ann?) was working as a milliner in Newington with the 6 month old twins. Thomas was also recorded as married, and back living with Mum, Elizabeth.

Ozi