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You're so right, Helen.

Ozi

Yes, I did wonder if it was more serious as joseph disapears after 1859 and Fredrick apears 1861 and then he also disapears and no record of either of them after that.
Perhaps i need to look at possible army etc records or court records. This has taken my interest even though they are not direct decendents. theis family history is addictive.

Helen

You're right, Janey. Leave the place, but change your occupation and name? There's mystery afoot.

Ozi

These are the new bits?

1852 per Annie Louise MAYCOCK birth cert
Joseph ad Mary ann (she reg.) he was a railway guard manchester
- i.e. Joseph Maycock

sept 1854 Eliza B(lake?) BERRIDGE born (radford)
(no cert - we assume ? Berridge father)

(1856 per Marth Jane's BERRIDGE birth cert
joseph and mary ann (she reg) he wsa a cigar salesman)
- i.e. Joseph Berridge

1859 per Richard Maycock BERRIDGE birth cert
joseph MAYCOCK BERRIDGE and mary ann (he reg) he ws a cigar dealer
- he's still Joseph and kept the Berridge, but put Maycock in the middle


So we've got him consistently as Joseph during that period, variously Maycock/Berridge.

Then comes the 1861 census, where he was Frederick (Berridge).


You look to be in a somewhat similar situation to me --
I discovered that my gr-grfather (and one of his siblings, his younger sister) changed their name from Hill, their registered surname at birth, to Monck.
I later learned why (from the son of an elderly first cousin of my mum, who was her grandfather's confidante as a teenager in Canada, but didn't know the name was fake): he deserted from the military c1878.
What I don't know: why that particular surname (except that it was the second middle name of his younger sister, but I still don't know why).

You have the fact of the name change, and the period when it applied: from between the 1852 and 1854 births onward.

Between those two events, Joseph/Frederick changed
- job
- residence
- name

I suspect something a little more pressing, in terms of the why, than a desire to leave bad family memories behind. ;)

SO FAR:
25/1/1836 Mary ann Needahm BAKE marries Joseph M(a)YCOCK per IGI

March 1840 birth Thomas (Bake) MAYCOCK Manchester (DIED JUNE 1883 basford)
June 1844 birth James MAYCOCK Manchester (? died 1852/56?)
March 1848 Charles MAYCOCK Manchester - died june 1851manchester
June 1850 Mary Ellen MAYCOCK Lincolnshire - died june1851 manchester
1851 Joseph and mary Ann MAYCOCK are in Manchester he is a Railway guard with 4 children (2 ?3 die beore 1861 census)
1852 per Annie Louise MAYCOCK birth cert Joseph ad Mary ann (she reg.) he was a railway guard manchester
sept 1854 Eliza B(lake?) BERRIDGE born (radford)
1856 per Marth Jane's BERRIDGE birth cert joseph and mary ann (she reg) he wsa a cigar salesman
1859 per Richard Maycock BERRIDGEbirth cert joseph MAYCOCK BERRIDGE and mary ann (he reg) he ws a cigar dealer
1861 Fredrick BERRIDGE and Mary Ann he ws a traveller in cigars (with annie, martha and richard)
dec 1868 Eliza BERRIDGE died Basford aged 14
1871 Mary Ann BERRIDGE (Widdow)with 2 of the children (n.b. richard is charles r)
1871census as (Martha) Jane MAYCOCK with relations Thomas and Maria MAYO she is a cousin

april 1875 Martha Jane MAYCOCK gets married (Alfred Jarvis) father named as Joseph MAYCOCK traveller
jan 1876 Eliza jane JARVIS born mother (martha Jane MAYCOCK)
march 1880 Annie louise MAYCOCK married Alexander McCormack
1881 Mary Ann MAYCOCK with married daughter Annie Louise MCCORMACK (across the road form Martha Jane JARVIS)

1881 census with Alfred with martha jane and Eliza Jane DAVIES


sept 1886 Elizabeth JARVIS born mother (martha Jane BERRIDGE)
1891 census as JJ (Jane JARVIS) in the local lunatic asylum
1891 census alfred a lodger and Elizabeth with Jarvis Grandmother
march 1896 martha jane JARVIS died
oct 1896 alfred JARVISremarries to harriet CORNHILL [neeSMITH]

I think they left manchester after loosing so many children -- new life new name new start new job.

I still have not found a deth for Joseph or and Fredrick detils i wonder it Fredrick is a census writer's error and as a cigar selsman/traveller joseph may not have died at home but anywhere in the country which makes him harder to track.
also there is 10 years difference between eliza's birth and Elizabeth's, on looking for births in BAsford per freebmd i found there were quite alot of birth and death of children under a year old which could have affected martha jane.
In addtion basford hd a cigar factory and even today has imperial tobacco.

Helen

I did wonder if Eliza had died, cannot find any record and that is why another one "Elizabeth" was so named.

Will be waiting with bated breath. ;)

I also meant to say:


1876 birth cert of Eliza Jane daughter - stated as MAYCOCK (alfred registered birth)
1886 birth cert of elizabeth daughter stated as BERRIDGE (martha registered birth)


-- those additional tidbits of info are interesting, that where her name was stated as Maycock it was Alfred reporting and where it was stated it to be Berridge it was Martha Jane reporting (always assuming the Maycock/Berridge equivalency) -- just a little more reason not to regard the discrepancy as a ruling-out factor.

I second that Helen

Thanks Janey,

This last couple of weeks I have been having an overload on the Jarvis family and relations. Its wonderful.
We have gone from not being able to trace Alfred (following the wrong one for a good number of years) to now possibly via another tree on the internet going back to 1700's!!! And now possibly having a track for his first wife.

Thanks everyone for your help I will update you to tell you what find out from birth certs. hoping they provide the MAYCOCK/BERRIDGE link.

That's how I figure it. ;)

The 1881 census as DAVIES is a mistranscription by Ancestry, keep in mind.
It actually says JARVIS.
It's quite vaguely written, but when you know you're seeing Jarvis, you see it.


For Eliza Jane in 1891, sorry, I omitted a bit -- I always edit out extraneous stuff like sex, and I edited out her relationship instead. ;)

The household didn't look related. The couple is likely:

Marriages Dec 1871
Davey Edward Nottingham 7b 480
Mead Mary Nottingham 7b 480
> Richardson George Thomas S Nottingham 7b 480
> Rippon Sarah Nottingham 7b 480


1891

Name: Elizabeth Jarvis
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Sherwood, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Basford

George Richardson 46
Sarah Richardson 38
Mary Richardson 16
George Richardson 12
Sam Richardson 8
Thomas Richardson 6
Harry Richardson 4
Elizabeth Jarvis 15 - single, occupation Lace Net Finisher


Oh, and now I look at the image, and see the good bit.
It doesn't say Elizabeth at all, it says Eliza. Very plainly and simply.

As I understand it and assuming maycock and berridge connection:
Martha Jane MAYCOCK/BERRIDGE
born sept quarter 1856 (Ihave ordered the birth cert)
1861 census with family father frederick and mother Mary Ann BERRIDGE (also ordered younger brother Richard Maycock Berridge birth cert and Christine is ordering older sister's annie Louise Maycock Birth cert who in census is a berridge!)
1871census as Jane MAYCOCK with relations Thomas and Maria MAYO she is a cousin
1875 marriage to Alfred JARVIS as Martha Jane MAYCOCK
1876 birth cert of Eliza Jane daughter - stated as MAYCOCK (alfred registered birth)
1881 census with Alfred and Eliza Jane DAVIES
1886 birth cert of elizabeth daughter stated as BERRIDGE (martha registered birth)
1891 census as JJ (Jane JARVIS) in the local lunatic asylum
1896 death of martha Jane JARVIS

So we are awaiting the arrival of the birth certificates TO see if they provide any more information to help confirm these ideas.

do you know who Elizabeth Jarvis / Eliza Jane was with in the 1891 census?

Thank you so much for you help.

Helen, great [eople on here. I am ff to print it so I can make sense of it too.

You have all been very busy over night, Thank you. I need to get my head round all this. Will be back on when i have it straight

hi JaneyCanuck in the 1881 you say it says Jarvis, do you mean they may have misheard, miswrote on the census, Yes it does match.

hi again, mind too active to sleep. I did find another alfred jarvis that married a louisa taylor 25-12-1882 that was in lenton, but we did agree that this was a no no.
I have sent 4 messages to people that have eliza jarvis in their tree and also to the 2 people that have mathew in their tree.

Alfred Jarvis-s in 1891:


Name: Alfred Jarvis -- "our" Alfred, by the theory
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Ingham, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Registration district: Nottingham
-- married, groom

Name: Alfred Jarvis
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Lenton
Registration district: Nottingham
-- married, foreman on cotton mill


They're both a little mysterious. Where is the other one's wife??
(Married Q4 1882 Nottingham? Sarah or Louisa.)


The other one in 1881:

Alfred Jarvis 24 - unmarried, overlooker Cotton Mill, born Radford
Harriett Jarvis 52 - mother, widowed
Walter Jarvis 26
Civil Parish: Lenton


If he was the one who married Maycock in 1875, he shouldn't be reporting unmarried.



Look what I've found, in 1881.


Name: Alfred Davies -- it says JARVIS
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Martha Jane Davies
Where born: Sneinton, Nottinghamshire, England
Occupation: Framwork knitter

Civil Parish: Sneinton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire

Alfred Davies 25
Martha Jane Davies 24 - born Sherwood
Eliza Jane Davies 5 - born Sherwood



I've fixed the name and added a reference to this thread, and now we can think about it. ;)



For good measure, Eliza Jane's marriage, and in 1901:


Marriages Dec 1900
Jarvis Eliza Jane Nottingham 7b 655
Keetley Matthew Nottingham 7b 655


Name: Eliza J Keetley
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Matthew Keetley
Where born: Sherwood, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Nottingham

Matthew Keetley 26
Eliza J Keetley 25
Horace Keetley 20 - brother


Somebody is researching the Keetleys -- Ancestry directs me to the 1891 census for the family, which someone else has saved.

And someone at GR has Mathew (one T) Keetley 1874 in their tree. (Likely because his age is 17 in the 1891 census.) That person also has Eliza Jarvis 1876.

Births Jun 1875
Keetley Matthew Nottingham 7b 302


This must be Eliza Jane Jarvis in 1891:

Name: Elizabeth Jarvis
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Gender: Female
Where born: Sherwood, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Basford


You went to bed while I was typing -- sleep tight. ;)

oh my goodness, what have you unearthed?? I cannot do this now, my mind is a whirl, thank you so much, I shall contact Helen in the morning, it does look like berridge and maycock are the same person, I noticed earlier about Richard maycock berridge, she must have been quite permiscuuss???? it is now 23.19 so i must get some sleep. back to try to see this clearly in the morning. thank you again for your help.

alfred father on 1896 marriage to harriet was John and he was a groom also.
alfred father on 1875 marriage to maycock was also john and he was a manservant.
hope that helps. the above info re henry cornhill, harriet smith cornhill.
gladys, percy (my grandad) william, and laura is all correct
henry cornhill died in totnes devon, then it appears that harriet returned to nottingham & marry Alfred jarvis.
all what you have there seems to be correct as we have it.

Sorry, you were posting as I was pondering.

As for the 1891 census and hospital records, I have no clue. ;) I'm in Canada. You could approach the local council authorities for info, maybe.

When I pointed out about Frederick Berridge in 1861 being a traveller in cigars, I was talking about the similarity to Martha Jane Maycock's father, since she reported him as being a traveller on the 1875 marriage certificate.

I think it really is pretty clear that mother Mary Ann was married to Joseph Maycock, and after his death or their estrangement, in Manchester after 1851, she had daughter Annie Louise Maycock (who could have been his child, if born late Q1 1852 and he died late Q2 1851, say).

The next child -- Eliza Berridge aged 6 in 1861 -- could be either of these:

Births Sep 1854
Berridge Eliza Blake Radford 7b 167
Births Mar 1854
Maycock Elizabeth Chorlton 8c 470

In 1861, Martha Jane Berridge is shown as Martha J. Giving a middle initial on the census often indicated that the person went by her middle name. So finding her as Jane Maycock in 1871, and JJ in 1891, makes sense.


And lookie here, the youngest child in 1861:

Births Sep 1859
BERRIDGE Richard Maycock Basford 7b 116

Elizabeth's grandmother in 1891:

Name: Elizabeth Jarvis
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Where born: Catesby, Leicestershire, England

Name: Elizabeth Jarvis
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Carrington, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Burton Joyce
Registration district: Basford


Alfred's mother in 1871:

Name: Elizabeth Jarvis
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Where born: Oadby, Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Snenton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Radford

Elizabeth Jarvis 50
William Jarvis 20
Priscilla Jarvis 18
John Jarvis 16
Alfred Jarvis 15 - born Ingham, Lincolnshire


Looks like the same.


Your Alfred was a groom when he married in 1896?

Marriages Dec 1896
CORNHILL Harriett Nottingham 7b 551
(married Henry Cornhill 1885)
Jarvis Alfred Nottingham 7b 551

(Hmm. No Henry Cornhill death 1885-1896, unless he was really old and he died in Devon.)

What was Alfred's father's name/occupation on the 1896 marriage?

What was the name/occupation of the father of the Alfred Jarvis who married Maycock 1875?

All the information that you have and we don't ... it would be so nice if you would give it.


1901

Alfred Jarvis 45 - born Nottingham, Tramcar Inspector
Harriett Jarvis 39 - born Mansfield
Elizabeth Jarvis 14
Percy J F Jarvis 3
William H Jarvis 2
Gladys S Jarvis 3 Weeks

Civil Parish: Nottingham



Well, interesting -- 1891:

Name: Harriett Cornhill
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Servant
Where born: ??, Mansfield

Name: H Cornhill
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Servant
Where born: Morley, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Berry Pomeroy
Registration district: Totnes
County/Island: Devon

He was really old and he died in Devon. ;)