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Hi Marion
Thank you for the information about John Babington and family, I agree the Babington/Clarke was too good to ignore.
Also thanks for the tip about the rates books, we're hoping that the fact William & Muriel living in the same house as Ellen lived in years before is no coincidence. When you suggest contacting the archivist, do you mean by email or telephone?
We're having a busy few days at the moment but hoping to get back into the research soon.

Hi Tony.
B´ham City Council have a website which includes a link to Libraries & Archives. I would try an e mail in the 1st instance as it´s cheaper than phoning & all they will probably tell you is their fee for doing look ups (which if I remember rightly, isn´t cheap)
Have you thought of joining the B´ham & Midlands Family History Society?
They may have other members who are linked to the family.
Marion

Vanessa, happy to join you running up and down those aisles at the Central Library!! Could use the exercise ...
Jan

Hi Brummiejan
I found it more beneficial getting up to the 6th floor every week for my classes when the escalators were out of order & the lift was full.
Marion

Hi Tony.
I know you´re busily bedding down for the winter at the moment, but thought I would add this for when you are back because otherwise I´ll forget.
Have you any idea what the link is with John Babbington who in 1901 is living at 2 Alfred Street with his wife Sarah & baby son Norman. He is 29 & a hot water pipe fitter. She is 28 & the baby is 1.
In 1891 he was at home with his father Thomas a 49 year old widower,jeweller & his siblings, Rose,25,William 21 Martha 19,Catherine 18,Florence 14 & Walter E 12.
The address was 5 Hartington Road, Off Asylum Road.
Sorry haven´t got acess to 1911 so haven´t been able to follow it through.
Marion

Household information
Address 119 Cromwell St Nechells B'Ham
Parish Aston
Town Nechells B Ham
Type of Building Shop (Green Grocery)
Number of Rooms 6
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN18250 RG78PN1101 RD385 SD3 ED20 SN75
Administrative County Warwickshire
Registration District Aston
Registration Sub District Duddeston
Enumeration District 20
Householder 1
Name John H Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married Married
Gender M
Age 36
Estimated Year of Birth 1875
Occupation Greengrocer
Employed Y
Working at Home Y
Place of Birth Aston
Householder 2
Name Sarah Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Condition / Years Married Married / 13 Years
Total Children Born Alive 5
Children Still Living 5
Gender F
Age 38
Estimated Year of Birth 1873
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Bham
Householder 3
Name Norman J Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1900
Occupation School
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Aston
Householder 4
Name Harold Houlster Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1902
Occupation School
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Aston
Householder 5
Name Horace Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1905
Occupation School
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Aston
Householder 6
Name Ernest Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1906
Occupation School
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Aston
Householder 7
Name Ivy Rose Hannah Babington
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1910
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Erdington

Thanks for looking that up Vanessa. It always bugs me when I can´t follow through.
Bit of a change of occupation from pipe fitter to greengrocer. Pity they weren´t still in the same house. Did you notice they have an Ernest, although he was obviously too young to have been anyones father at the time we´re looking at.
Perhaps Tony can shed some light when he´s sorted out his house move.
Marion

Hi Marion
Thank you so much for this, I've only just seen it (Sunday evening 23.00 hrs here), I just don't know how you do it, we've searched for John & Ernest Babington/Babbington and have not come across this one before. It'll be Tuesday before we can look at it properly.

Thanks also to Vanessa for the post you have added, not had time to digest it properly, I really am gratefull for all your help.

No probs Tony.
What else is there to do on a pouring wet,windy Sunday in Menorca?

Hi Marion, have seen this family a number of times when I have been searching the elec roll online for Tony. They stay at Cromwell st but it looks like John B snr dies and at some point they move to Wharton st , early 1920s, described as Washwood Heath/Bromford ward. Just mention this incase it falls into place anywhere with any of your wide ranging family knowledge!

Bw

vanessa

Hi Vanessa.
I lived in Washwood Heath/Ward End/Bromford from when I was born, but have never heard of Wharton Street. In fact, the area was a bit more upmarket & went in for Roads & Avenues rather than Streets.
Somewhere in the debris I call my desk, I have an A_Z of B´ham.
Will get the spade out later & see if I can find it & let you know. My feeling is that it´s more likeley to be Saltley/Nechells, but I´ve been wrong before.
Marion

Hi again.
Had a quick google & as I thought, Wharton Street is Nechells/Saltley/ Aston area,just off Cuckoo Road & is now part of an industrial estate.
Googling was quicker than finding the A_Z. That´s a project for another day!!
Marion

Hi Marion
Re your post 16 Oct John Babington (spelt with only one b) living at 2 Alfred St. I just don't know what to say about this, it's such a big coincidence that a man of that name is living at 2 Alfred St but, we are 99% certain that it was our John living in Ecclesall Bierlow with Helen and the 2 older girls on the 1901 census.

Will file this under the heading 'useful info'

I've just thought, I wonder what the E is for in Walter E, if it was Ernest he could be a contender in our search for my dad's father. Stretch the imagination a little and think that he may have been visiting his brother John in Alfred St.

Hooray!
I didn't have to stretch the imagination too far: -

Walter Ernest Babington
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Aston (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 389 (click to see others on page

So, he was the brother of John Babington who was living at 2 Alfred Street in 1901. Ellen was living in Catherine St when Lilian was born in 1903, Watville Rd for Dad's birth in 1910 and 1911 census and Bk 19 Alfred St for William's birth in 1913. Alfred St runs off Watville Rd - this is surely more than a coincidence.

Thanks Vanessa, the 1911 census shows John had moved from Alfred St before Ellen moved in sometime between 1911 & 1913. I'm sure there must be a connection but not sure where to look next

Will do more digging

Hi Tony ,
think Walter Ernest Babington was married to Jane and their address for a number of years from 1912- 1930s is

1 COURT 1 VITTORIA ST- st pauls ward

???
as ever

Vanessa

edit- is this not the same family that was mentioned a couple of pages ago ??

Hi Vanessa
You're right I posted it on 28 Sept on P18, I mentioned him then after I'd trawled through list upon list of possible Ernest Babington/Babbingtons and the one and only reason was because he may not have used his first name and been known as Ernest Babington.

What I didn't realise then was that he was the brother of John Babington/Babbington who lived at 2 Alfred Street in 1901. Clutching at straws perhaps but although Ellen didn't live there then maybe she had friends or family in Alfred Street so there may have been a chance he could have met her.

Am I sounding too optimistic or just desperate?

Edit... just taken a look on Google Maps and Catherine Street is a fair way from Alfred St for a woman with 2 little girls and a new baby, though I expect there would have been trams. Now looking for a family connection living in Alfred St or Watville Rd

Hi Everyone

We're just recapping this morning, going through the thread again picking up parts that seemed insignificant at the time but we knew would be useful later.

This is part of a message Jonsey posted on 18th July, page 2 of the thread, about the house dad was born at the back of: -

Unfortunately the original 73 Wattville Road has been replaced by 3 new dwellings. It stood on the corner of Wattville road and Green Lane. You can however see roughly what it may have looked like as number 75 is still there on the opposite corner and you can view that on Google Earth by entering 75 Wattville Road Handsworth Birmingham UK into the GE address search box. Zoom in and then click on the nearest camera icon.

We've just had a look and it's amazing, the view is so clear. For anyone who joined us later in the thread and hasn't taken the opportunity yet do take a look it's truly wonderful.

Vanessa we know you're particularly interested in the houses and where people lived, so if you've got Google Earth do take a look. Marion, if you've never done this you should also find it very interesting now you can't hop in the car and drive to look at the streets of your research.

At long last we have the death cert for John Thomas W Babington, the handwriting is very poor and some of the wording is very difficult to read. We've asked 'wisechild' for help with this, in the meantime we believe the details are as follows: -

When & where died: 27 June 1901, 10 Copley St Ecclesall Bierlow
Name: John Thomas Macormack Babington
Sex: Male
Age: 34
Occupation: Edge tool grinder
Cause of death: Chronic Pulmonary Phthisis 2 years. Acute Pulmonary Phthisis 6 days, + Exhaustion
Informant: X the mark of Ellen Babington widow of the deceased, present at the death
Death: 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow
Registered: 27 June 1901

We were uncertain that he would turn out to be 'our John' as we'd not come accross the use of the several christian names in our previous research but, because of the place of death it was worth investigating as it was where Rosie May was born and the place where we believed the family were living on the 1901 census.
So, he was the 'husband' of Ellen Clarke and the father of Ellen Jane & Rosie May after all.

Can anyone help with tracing a birth record for him please. Born around 1865 - 1888 in Hampstead, London, the son of John Babbington and Jane Tucker

HELP NEEDED

We're having extreme difficulty reading certain parts of John Babington's death cert, can anyone who's experienced in this kind of thing help please. If you would send a pm with your email address we can forward it to you

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