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I am hoping a very kind soul with access to records I do not have can find me any records of when and how Johann Christian Friedrich Sasse (born @1829 Hamburg, Germany) came to Britain.
I have found him on 3 census married to his wife Louisa who was also German.
1861 Living and Working in Hull
1871 Living and working as a tailor in Tynmouth
1881 Living and Working in Sunderland - Lodger 10 Havelock St

There is a very strange twist to Frederick and Louisa but I would love to know when and how they came to Britain and then find more about my German Ancestors.

Many thanks in advance to you super sleuths.

1881

John TAYLOR Head M Male 67 Ireland Lodging House Keeper
Elizabeth TAYLOR Wife M Female 58 Ireland
Charles TAYLOR Son U Male 22 Durham, Durham, England Tailor Journeyman
Thomas PARKIN Lodger U Male 39 Nottingham, Nottingham, England Engine Fitter Journeyman
Ralph SMITH Lodger M Male 36 Gateshead, Durham, England Glass Cutter Journeyman
Mary SMITH Lodger M Female 26 Readymoor, Durham, England
Robert WILKINSON Lodger U Male 41 Fatfield, Durham, England Butcher Out Of Employ
Ralph MARROW Lodger U Female 40 Newcastle, Northumberland, England Anchor Smiths Striker
Andrew BELL Lodger U Male 54 Newcastle, Northumberland, England General Labourer
Thomas WILSON Lodger U Male 23 Sunderland, Durham, England Baker Out Of Employ
Robert JACKSON Lodger Male 18 Sunderland, Durham, England Mariner
Joseph COLLINS Lodger U Male 40 Gateshead, Durham, England Iron Yard Labourer Manuf
William JOHNSON Lodger U Male 33 Darlington, Durham, England Blacksmith Out Of Employ
James JACKSON Lodger M Male 30 Sunderland, Durham, England Iron Yard Labourer Ship
Agnes MALONE Lodger M Female 45 Scotland Seamstress
James BURNS Lodger Male 30 Ireland Coal Miner Out Of Employ
George JOHNSON Lodger Male 17 Scotland Slater Out Of Employ
Frederick SASS Lodger M Male 49 Germany Tailor Journeyman
Michael HEALEY Lodger W Male 56 Scotland Tailor Journeyman
William WILSON Lodger M Male 27 Sheffield, York, England Iron Yard Labourer Ship
(Continued)


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Source Information:
Dwelling 10 Havelock Street
Census Place Sunderland, Durham, England
Family History Library Film 1342203
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5000 / 43
Page Number 80

There is a Frederic Sass that came over from Germany on the 21st feb 1850 and arrived at Dover. No age for him though. Annie

Ann of Green Gables
That is my Frederick on the 1881 living on his own in Sunderland.
His family were scattered across England.
I have never found what happened to Louisa by 1881.

Grannie
That could be him, he would have been around 21 then and Louisa a little younger.
Why move from Hamburg to England in 1850.
They ended up living in Hull which makes me think that was where they landed rather than Dover but I wouldn't rule Dover out.

1881

John SASS Head M Male 49 Schwerin Mecklenburg, Germany Sugar Refiner
Marie SASS Wife M Female 49 Schwerin Mecklenburg, Germany Sugar Refiner Wife
William SASS Son U Male 19 Schwerin Mecklenburg, Germany Sugar Refiners Son
Frederick SASS Son U Male 14 Lpool, Lancashire, England Sugar Refiners Son
John CORDES Boarder U Male 27 Hanover, Germany Sugar Refiner
Frederick BAHRMAN Boarder U Male 37 Hanover, Germany Sugar Refiner


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Source Information:
Dwelling 43 Hopwood St
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341862
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3600 / 40
Page Number 7

FREDRICK DAVID SASS Pedigree
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 11 JUL 1841 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England
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Parents:
Father: BEREND SASS Family
Mother: ELLEN
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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Anne
I am trying to find when and where they came from in Germany not where they lived in England.
The Sass you have in 1881 are different family whose descendents still live in Liverpool
The Christening record is not him he can't have been born in England.

1881

William H. SASSE Head M Male 29 Germany Baker
Annie SASSE Wife M Female 20 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 27 Edgar Road
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341110
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0495 / 96
Page Number 22

I don't think your records are my family we have no evidence that our Sass's were from London.
They lived in Hull.

Frederick Sass had 3 children all born in England
Jane 1859
Julius 1861
John 1867

Are there no records on Ancestry showing German aliens in Britain and where they arrived in England?

Simon,Thats where i got Frederic Sass from. Ancestry.There are other Sass but only one Frederic.He was on ticket 300.My son in laws dad was german and came over here in the 1930's and there is no record for him as well. Annie

Janet
The strange twist was that
Even though Frederick was alive in 1871 working in Tynmouth his youngest son John was aged 5 living in a workhouse with none of his family.

I don't know what happened to Louisa and the other two children.

Fortunately young John grew up and moved to Manchester, the family are still here.

Grannie

Thanks for that, I guess they could have paid anyone to bring them here in the 1850's and lived here illegally.
Strange they were on the 1861 census.

It does make me wonder why a young couple moved countries.

I guess other than finding records in Germany of Frederick Sass leaving Germany I may never know when and where they cam from nevermind why.

Thanks for all your input and help.

William Adolf Sass Pedigree
Male Family
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Parents:
Father: John Charles Sass Family
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Marriages:
Spouse: Lily Clark Family
Marriage: 05 JUN 1911 North Kelsey, Lincoln, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

William Sass Pedigree
Male Family
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: MAR 1824 , , Germany
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Marriages:
Spouse: Mrs. Caroline Sass Family
Marriage: 1851 , , Germany

Ann
Interesting!
More Sass families in Lincolnshire not far from Hull.

I wonder if Frederick came to England with not just his wife.
They are not together on any census records though and they split up and dispersed not to be together again.

Simon, I just have to say .........








Siiiigh. You're beginning to rival me for idiot ancestors. ;)

If you PM AoGG and tell her specifically which posts contain info that isn't related, she will delete them for you. She did this to me in my Ponton thread and before the reams of unrelated Pontons drove me and any relation trying to read the thead nuts, I got her to excise them. Sometimes random people with similar names are useful (James Greenwood ...........), sometimes not.

Maybe she'd even edit to delete the great list of unrelated people in that 1881 census "household".


Also, it does help us if you reproduce the basics of census info rather than describing it. I can't find a Frederick Sass living and working as a tailor in 1871 in Tynemouth, and I'd like to see the actual census record. You never know what might be there that could be useful to other people looking.


So, searching for just Fred* born c1829 in Germany/Prussia, in Tynemouth in 1871 -- could this be him? Per Ancestry, but it does read Soss. (How's your German pronunciation? That would have been it.)


Name: Frederick Soss
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Occupation: Tailor
>> Spouse's Name: Jane Soss
Where born: Mecklen Corgh, Germany (it says Mecklenburgh)
Civil parish: Tynemouth

Frederick Soss 40
Jane Soss 33 - born Durham S Shields


No wife Louisa there. See what I mean about the records?

Marriages Sep 1864 ?
Gent George Sunderland 10a 563
Rodley Emma Sunderland 10a 563
> Sass Frederick Sunderland 10a 563
? Smith Jane Sunderland 10a 563

Deaths Dec 1885 ?
Sass Frederick 54 Sunderland 10a 270


I haven't dug up a doppelganger too, have I?


If that is him, the marriage certificate would give you a father's name, hopefully.


You say:

Frederick Sass had 3 children all born in England
Jane 1859
Julius 1861
John 1867

Births Jun 1859
Sasse Jane Hull 9d 162
- nothing further in GRO index

Births Mar 1861
Sass Julius Hull 9d 171
- nothing further in GRO index

Did those two children die in infancy?

I see nothing for John. Can you show us the records?


You said Fred and Louisa were not together on any census records, but they're together as you described Fred in 1861 - ? --


1861

Name: Frederick Sass
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Occupation: Tailor Journeyman
Spouse's Name: Louisa Sass
Where born: Germany

Civil parish: Hull Holy Trinity

Frederick Sass 32
Louisa Sass 24 - born Hamburg
Jane Sass 2 - born Hull
Julius Sass 2 MO - born Hull


I'm not sure that the 1871 Frederick is the same as this 1861 Frederick. Are you?

If he is, then wife Louisa was deceased by 1864 (or otherwise sufficiently out of the picture that he chose to remarry), apparently.

If they're the same people, it rather looks to me that Louisa packed up Jane and Julius and went home, and Fred married Jane Smith and had son John Sass.

I actually think these may be two different Freds, if yours is supposed to be in Hull.

But I wonder -- are Fred and Jane in Sunderland really yours, and Fred and Louisa some other people who were in England only temporarily, had children Jane and Julius, and left?

Hoping to see the various records you have that I can't find etc.!


Note re post below: German name could be Saße (Sasse) or Saß (Sass) it seems. There are actors named Katrin Saß and Phillip Saß.

Have you got any of the childrens birth certificate in order to show Louisa's maiden name.

I have this problem also............cannot find my rellies coming over from Germany and I only have 2 years to choose from as one child was born Germany and the youngest one born in England..

However I think the German name is spelt Sasse. (Mine have Schang and I found out its actually Schenck..........why oh why couldnt they read and write)

Lesley

1861 Living and Working in Hull

Name: Frederick Sass
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Germany

Civil Parish: Hull Holy Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hull
Sub registration district: Humber
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 1a

Frederick Sass 32
Jane Sass 2
Julius Sass 2 Mo
Louisa Sass 24

1881 Living and Working in Sunderland - Lodger 10 Havelock St is above

That is the right 1871 census Fredrick remarried in 1864



I will PM AoGG as you suggested, there are quite a few posts here that have nothing to do with Fred and Louisa.

I do know that Frederick Sass died in Sunderland in Dec 1885.

Still no idea where he was born or why his son William was left in Hull Workhouse.

Stella Sass is great grandaughter is still alive and is my mum in law.

Yes I do have some maddening ancestors.

Simon, I seriously think you have muddled two completely different Frederick Sass-s from Germany.


One born c1829 is a tailor in Hull, married to Louisa from Germany, who had children Jane, Julius and (?) John.

The other born c1832 is a tailor in Sunderland, married to Jane from South Shields.

If you're descended from John, the question is: which Frederick?

"Even though Frederick was alive in 1871 working in Tynmouth his youngest son John was aged 5 living in a workhouse with none of his family."

If I could find that census record, I might be able to take a guess -- depending on where it says John was born -- but I can't.

I would suspect that he was the son of Fred and Louisa of Hull, rather than Fred and Jane of Tynemouth, and that Fred and Louisa were deceased.