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Though for all we know she might be big Annie Garner. She was born1872/3 in the Sale, Cheshire area. Through marriage she became Annie Worrall (=William) then Annie Harrison (=Jack). We know from a purchased marriage certificate her father was Joseph, a labourer.

We would love to track her mother and if possible her grandparents

Jonesey's family in 1871 has father/husband John not Joseph, a coachman.

Do you know if a middle name for yours?
Births Jun 1872
GARNER Annie Elizabeth Altrincham 8a 202
Births Sep 1872
GARNER Annie Altrincham 8a 165
Births Dec 1872
GARNER Annie Amelia Altrincham 8a 154

Hello and thanks Jonesey and Patricia - the marriage certificate just says Annie and the father is definitely Joseph. I know this is a difficult one - I've been struggling with it for ages.

Wrong county but quite close

Annie Garner
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Josh
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Josh Garner 46>>>>>>>>labourer born Ireland
Ann Garner 50>>>>>>born ireland
Annie Garner 18
Christina Garner 14
Robert Garner 11
Anarao Garner 9>>>>>Looks like it could be Andrew

could be - Josh = Joseph but I'm not convincede

Yes Joseph, possibly - buy both certificates, I suppose, see if there is a Joseph as dad. Can you lend me the money?

Yes Joseph, possibly - buy both certificates, I suppose, see if there is a Joseph as dad. Can you lend me the money?

You have got to look at original records, not just at the (often wrong, sometimes totally moronic) transcriptions by services like Ancestry.

The 1891 census record for "Josh Garner" doesn't say that at all.

It's a little difficult to say what it does say. But the "Josh" part is actually "Jos'h" -- the "h" is written superscript. It is an abbreviation for Joseph.

What it says in front of the "Jos'h" isn't immediately clear. It seems to have said John. I think maybe the whole first bit is meant to be scratched and was replaced by "Jos'h" before the surname was written.

In any case, what you really have there is a Mr Garner whose first or second name, probably first, is Joseph, who was a general labourer born in Ireland.

No Harold, here is the link from Cheshirebmd to one of the Annies.

http://www.ukbmdsearch.org.uk/certapp.php?type=births&data=GARNER%7cAnnie%7cAltrincham%7cTrafford%7c1872%7c1872%7c%7cTR%3aALT%2f37%2f59%7cG%7c4931%7ccheshire%7cTR%7c&lang=

Cheshire bmd.

Print off the form. Send it in with the criteria that father must be Jospeh and mother Ann. You can even specify Joseph's occupation if it was consistent from census to census. Tell them there is another possible:

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/pba.cgi?date=1871&county=cheshire&reference=TR%3AALT%2F36%2F3&file=G&pos=4988&area=TR

And you aren't sure which, if either, is right.

Write your story on the back of the form, with a clear marking on the front saying "PLEASE SEE OVERLEAF".

You'll get the right one, if indeed one of them is right.

EDIT, make sure to include your phone number. They phone. They don't do emails. And they might phone on Saturdays, while they are waiting between weddings!!!

Thank you Janey, that clarifies it

Okay Madmeg I will follow your advice - thanks

Hello Astra and Janey, I' ve been scrutising the 1891 census you brought to my attention and it doesn't quite add up

Firstly Annie 18 is down as born in Manchester but all my subsequent census (1901 & 1911) state Sale, Cheshire. I know they are close but there is a difference now and certainly was in the 1800's.

Secondle I cannot find that family 1n 1881.

Comments very welcome

I think Astra was putting up that census as the best available. It might well be wrong, and she would probably say the same.

Can you put up the cencuses for 1901 and 1911? They might give us some clues.

Though I still think it's worth trying Cheshire for one of those Annie births.

Yes, you are right Madmeg - I tried your links and failed - but I am useless computer-wise. Can you do it for me, with me paying of course.

Best Regards Harry

Going to bed now but will try to copy 1901 and 1911 census tomorrow -don't hold your breath

I have now got the birth certificate of Annie Garner Altrincham district born 11-6-1872. Mother is Hannah Garner living in Sale (61 Egerton St.) but her father Joseph is a Drinkwater and not a Garner. He is a plasterer's labourer

Please note her first daughter to William Worrall is Winefred Hannah Worrall) and that fits

Fascinating stuff but I still can't locate them. Any help would be appreciated

1891 England Census
about Hannah Coombs
Name: Hannah Coombs
[Hannah Garner]
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Altrincham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Altrincham
Sub-registration district: Altrincham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Coombs 44 Says S for single!!
Harry Kinsey 28
Elizabeth Garner 61 Mother born Shipbrook Cheshire

1881 England Census
about Annie Garner
Name: Annie Garner
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Altrincham
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address: 10 New Street
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Altrincham
Sub-registration district: Altrincham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Sarah Garner 33 1848 Northwich, Cheshire,Wife marr. Cab Drivers Wife

Eliza Garner 12
Annie Garner 9
John Garner 7
Lizzie Garner 5





1891 England Census
about Annie Garner
Name: Annie Garner
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Timperley
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Registration district: Altrincham
Sub-registration district: Altrincham
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Swift 56
George Swift 21
Annie Scott 57
Annie Garner 19 Servant

1891 England Census
about Hannah Garner
Name: Hannah Garner
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Josiah
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: Bramshall, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Bramshall
Ecclesiastical parish: Norbury St Thomas
Town: Hazelgrove
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Stockport
Sub-registration district: Hazelgrove
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Josiah Garner 59
Hannah Garner 59
Sarah Am Garner 24
James Owen Garner 21
Lilly Garner 18
Hannah Garner 14