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Please could someone do me a census search on John Whitmarsh born 1891 Sydenham, it is thought his dob is 13/04/1891. His father was also called John Whitmarsh and my grandmother said he had a brother called Jack.
Thank you very much

the only john whitmarsh was:

George John Whitmarsh
Born-1891
Lives:Aberdare,Aberdare Merthyr Tydfil

Hi Katie
That is def not the right one.
Thank you for looking.

its ok :) i thought it wasnt the right one but thats the only one there was x

1901
Name: John Whitmarsh
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Agnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Sydenham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Angels, Christchurch, and St Michael
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub registration district: Sydenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 337
Household Members:
Name Age
John Whitmarsh 32 bethnal green
Agnes Whitmarsh 48 bethnal green
John Whitmarsh 10
Henry Whitmarsh 8 sydenham
Agnes Whitmarsh 13 sydenham

richard

Thanks Richard that must be the one.
Will have to get some certs.
Maybe Henry was known as Jack!
Sorry can I just ask you does it tell you where the parents and siblings were born?

Added places of birth.

richard

Name: John Whitmarsh
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Lewisham
County: Greater London, Kent, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 1214

Thank you very much.

With regard to what Richard has found on 1901.

I have to go off line but think the following is connected so perhaps someone will have a look into it?


think John has only just married Agnes so we need to find who he had the children with prior to 1901:

Marriages Jun 1901

Banks Elizabeth Louisa Lewisham 1d 1968
BECKETT Herbert John Lewisham 1d 1968
****RANDALL Agnes Lewisham 1d 1968
****Whitmarsh John Lewisham 1d 1968
.......................

1891:
Name: Agnes Randall
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Sydenham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michaels
Town: Lewisham
County/Island: London
Country: England


Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub registration district: Sydenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Micham 40
Elizabeth Micham 38
George Micham 20
Elizabeth Micham 17
Frank Micham 10
Agnes Randall 38 sister - widow
Agnes Randall 3 (daughter of Agnes)

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 523; Folio 34; Page 22; GSU roll: 6095633.

...................................

The above were living at 6 Miall? Road and Henry + Sarah Whitmarsh (with son John and other children!!) were living at No. 4 !!!!!!!!!!

I don't know where the other Whitmarsh children came in, BUT...

Births Mar 1888

RANDALL Agnes Margaret Lewisham 1d 1184a

......................................................

It obviously connects!!

I will take another look tomorrow if no-one has it sorted!!

Dea x

Wow thank you Dea that is very interesting. My Nanna did not think John had a daughter called Agnes but my mum remembers an aunt Agnes.

I did order the birth cert for a John but was not sure if it was the right one as the dob was 20/04/1891 and my Nanna had it down as 13/04/1891. But it looks like it is the right one as there are on others that match. On it his mother is Agnes Whitmarsh, late Randall formerly Hanley the address is 6 Miall Road.

Going by what you have found is Agnes the daughter of big Agnes? I am a little confussed and is Big Agnes the sister of Elizabeth Mitcham? But it says George and Elizabeth are her parents but they are Mitcham! I will have to order her cert.

What are the names of Henry and Sarah's other children? Where they all born in Sydenham?

Thank you so much for helping I have been really puzzled with this.

I am very gratefull.
Jacqui

This is 'that' Whitmarsh family on 1891:



John Whitmarsh ............ at 4 Miall Road !!!!
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michaels
Town: Lewisham
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Lewisham
Sub registration district: Sydenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Whitmarsh 60 Gen Labr. b St George East
Sarah Whitmarsh 59 b Bethnel Green
Henry Whitmarsh 30 unm "
John Whitmarsh 25 " "
Edward Whitmarsh 22 " "
Emma Whitmarsh 14 " b Middlesex, Bromley
Ann Whitmarsh 6 b Sydenham, Kent grand-daughter

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 523; Folio 34; Page 21; GSU roll: 6095633.


Dea x

WELL !! - That took a while to sort !!



Marriages Jun 1870

***Mechem George Bethnal Green 1c 689
White Annie Maria Bethnal Green 1c 689
***Whitmarsh Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 689
Wilson James Francis Bethnal Green 1c 689

Father in law Henry Whitmarsh is living with George + Elizabeth Mechem on 1901.

Therefore, when Agnes (still a Randall) was living with George + Elizabeth on 1891, she wasn't 'actually ' sister-in-law yet
but was about to marry Elizabeth's brother John Whitmarsh when she became officially the 'sister-in-law' !

I hope I have made that clear but I am a bit 'befuddled' after all that.

Will take a break and come back to it later.

Dea x

That is great, I will have to get there marriage cert.

Going by this info Elizabeth Whitmarsh and Agnes were born the same year so they could have been friends and that is how she meet John Whitmarsh.

Henry and Sarah Whitmarsh's children are very spread out in age, that is rare for back then.

Thank you so much for doing all this research for me.

GOSH, there is so much intermingling going on here - I think I will have to leave you to digest it all -
I hope you have a home tree programme so you can sort it into there and see what is happening, then
get back to me??

Now this is Agnes in 1881 married to her first husband William Randall: (Though I haven't found the
marriage yet) ??

1881 England Census
about Agnes Randall
Name: Agnes Randall
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: St Georges East, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Lewisham
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: Southend Lane Camden Cotts
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub registration district: Sydenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 21a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Randall 31
Agnes Randall 28
Eliza Randall 8
Sarah Randall 2
William Randall 4 months.



Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 739; Folio: 121; Page: 20; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341172.
..............

>>> William then dies:

Deaths Dec 1887 (So, .. born c 1850)
Randall William 37 Lewisham 1d 686

......................................

William + Agnes seem to have had at least 4 other children as well as Agnes Jnr.


1891 England Census - **she is Agnes's daughter and later marries Henry Whitmarsh (John's brother) !!
about Sarah Randall
Name: Sarah Randall
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Where born: Lewisham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Penge
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Town: Penge
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Croydon
Sub registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: North Surrey District Schools
Neighbors: View others on page


*****Also in there a Joseph Randall age 5 b Lewisham, Kent.
+ William Randall c 1881 "
+ Charles Randall c 1883 "

............
**
Henry Whitmarsh (John's brother) - then marries Eliza RANDALL in 1896 !!

Marriages Mar 1896
Randall Eliza Bromley 2a 513
Whitmarsh Henry Bromley 2a 513

...........

Sarah Randall (Agnes's other daughter is with Henry Whitmarsh and his family on 1901)

PPheww.... I am going for a little lie down now!

Let me know what you think.

Dea x

Hi,

Something you said ealier is really puzzling me!

""I did order the birth cert for a John but was not sure if it was the right one as the dob was 20/04/1891 and my Nanna had it down as 13/04/1891. But it looks like it is the right one as there are on others that match. On it his mother is Agnes Whitmarsh, late Randall formerly Hanley the address is 6 Miall Road.""

It is the bit about 'late Randall, formerly Hanley' - I cannot find the connection back to 'Hanley' ..... drattttt !!!!

Can you confirm that this is what the cert says please?

Dea x.

P.S. - Please also bear in mind that although I am 'personally' happy that the info I am giving you is correct - I check it as thoroughly as I can before I post it to make sure it all 'fits' !! - We cannot be absolutely certain unless you check it for yourself and buy a few certs to prove it!

I would hate to lead you astray!

Dea x

Well think I have just about taken that all in.
I have put it all on my genesreunited tree.

It must have been really hard for Agnes losing her husband so young and with all those children. Does pauper inmate mean that Sarah was in care? Agnes must have just kept little Agnes with her as she was born after her husband died.

It was nice that Sarah went and lived with them at some stage. Some of the other children might have but then moved out before the census.

Going back to John and Henry Whitmarsh it looks like they were born out of wedlock but were their kids.

I need a lay down now...

Sorry just read your message.
On John Whitmarsh's birth cert it does have Agnes Whitmarsh late Randall formerly Hanley or looking at it again could be Harley!

I will order some more certs so that I can confirm it all.

PS you had a very quick lie down!

I have just spoken to my Nanna and she said that her grandad John Whitmarsh 1866 remarried in 1923 after his first wife died and remembers her as Bird so I have just looked on freebmd and found there marriage ref. I will order that and it will hopefully have his father as Henry Whitmarsh. That will help to confirm it all.

Yes, - I couldn't 'settle' until I have found that 'Hanley' connection.

DO let me know what the certs tell you!!

Dea x

AAArrgg - just seen your message about 'Bird' - I had found something on that !!!!!!!!!

Have to go back and re-find it !! - No 'lie-down' imminent now !!

Dea x

Oh sorry my Nanna is 86 so she does not remember everything and I can not ask to much in one go. She is in Kent and I am in the Isle of Man so it is hard on the phone.
I will order some certs today.