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Hi, - Sorry, I HAD to do some shopping !!

I know you can't interrogate your nanna but, when appropriate, could you find out what she knows about her uncle 'Jack' ?

Whether he 'travelled around' a lot with his work?

If he had any connection to Gloucestershire, Bedfordshire (Apthill), or to the name 'Turner' ??

In the meanwhile I will continue to 'dig around'

Dea x

P.S. - It seems a little strange to have a John with a brother Jack as 'Jack' was usually (though NOT always) an alternative for John and there wouldn't normally be 2 brothers both called John. (Although, again, I did come across one family with about 12 children and all the boys were given the same first name, as were all the girls - This IS very unusual though !!)

Dea x

I will speak to my Aunt and let you know what she says.
Thank you
Jacqui

Hi Dea

My aunt has come back to me after speaking to my Nanna and her sister. Her sister said that she remembers John Whitmarsh's brother as Harry and not Jack as my Nanna thought. (My Nanna said I should have started this a year ago when she remembered more, wish I had)

She did say that she thougth that he was married to Carrie Bird(the daughter of Jane Elizabeth Bird, second wife of John Whitmarsh).

On the marriage cert for John and Jane her father was Charles Thorne and he was deceased. I can not find her first marriage or a census with them on to see if they did have a child called Carrie.

John's brother lived in Sydenham and then moved to Forrest Hill. They do not remember him as a traveller but are sure his wife was Carrie.

Not sure if any of this will help at all.

Thank you
Jacqui

AAhh !!

I have that marriage already:

Marriages Jun 1915

Bird Caroline Whitmarsh Lewisham 1d 2829
Whitmarsh Henry G Bird Lewisham 1d 2829

I have some details on Henry also but I am afraid they will have to wait until later
- It is 'grand-daughter day' on a Friday and she is about to arrive!

Speak later,

Dea x

oh wow
looks like it is Henry after all then.
might be able to get the evidence i need, i am excited.
have a lovely day.
you are a grandmother, nice to know something about you.
i feel like i know you but i do not if you know what i mean.
have a nice day.
jacqui

Hi,

I'm back now - just taken grand-daughter home so I'm a little bit 'brain dead' - she is 4, going on 20 (If you know what I mean!) - I also have a 9 month old grandson (Happy to tell you more about us all but more appropriate by pm).

Anyway, we have to be careful here as all these Whitmarshes are intermingled, they have all given their children the same names, all live close by and have very often married into the same families (siblings or children etc!!).

I am reading through the thread again and the notes I have made - Could you help by giving me a quick update of which bit you need proof of next?

We don't want to 'mess things up' by going off on a tangent now!

Dea x

Hi
Sorry have been working then I got my mum round to go through it all with me.
Right here goes.
My nanna is Betty Whitmarsh 1923 she has one brother John 1918 and 5 sisters Elizabeth, Doris, Irene, Joyce and Doreen.
There parents were John Whitmarsh (1891) and Elizabeth Flint (1891) married 4 sep 1910.
John has a brother who was thought to be Jack but then changed to Harry and was married to a Carrie.

There father as on John's marriage cert was also John (1866) and we did not know who his first wife was but the second was a Mrs Bird. (I have the marriage cart for this) It was thought that Mrs Bird's daughter married John's (1891) brother and you found that marriage for Henry and Caroline Bird. So that makes it seem that the Jack/Harry is actually the Henry we have been seeing.

On John's (1866) marriage cert to Mrs Bird his father is Henry and the address is 20 Bell Green.

For John (1866) we have found a marriage to Agnes Randall who was married before to William Randall. She was born Wakerley. She had 5 children to him and pregnant with 6th when he died. She then married a John Whitmarsh and had John and Henry. Her 6th child lived with them she was little Agnes.

My Nanna still needs convincing that her grandad JOhn (1866) did marry this Agnes as she does not remember anything about her being married before and having other children.

I also need to prove that her dad's (JOhn 1891) brother was Henry.

I think that I need to order the certs for John and Agnes marriage and hope that shows something. I think I will also get the marriage cert for Henry and Caroline Bird .

My mum said that John (1866) lived most of his life at 20 Bell Green, Sydenham well what she remembers and that was his address when he marrried Mrs Bird in 1923. She remembers my Nanna living there at some point so John and his brother could have been born there. Just realised the birth cert I have for John the address is 6 Miall Road so maybe I should get the birth cert for Henry and see what address that comes up with!

I hope that makes sense to you.
What do you think?
Jacqui

Hi Dea
Also you said you had some details for Henry 1893 (John's brother)
Just wondered if that was his and Carolines children.
Maybe they had a son called Jack and that is where the Jack came from.
Thanks
Jacqui

Hi again,

- I will look properly in the morning when I am awake !!

Dea x

Hello Jaqueline,saw your message & was surprised when i saw the whitmarsh names,.Have lived all my life in Miall road Sydenham Born 1928 no 18 still live in Miall but now called Walk not Road.I am 84 but remember such a lot
i can recalla Jackie &Stanley think they lived along Bell Green near Barber shop.These maybe related but not sure of ages stanmaybe my age so it would be back .Would love to hear from you to maybe sort more info.
Dolly Gray (nee Perks)
ps still trying for info on my Grandmother i have been searching about 10 years on Ancestry. Bye.

Dolly,

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