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trying to find info on morris griffiths b circa 1865 in holyhead N wales father of Morris Griffiths born 1890 in Holyhead

The 1881 censuses are free to search at ancestry.co.uk.


Is this Morris Jr in 1891?

Name: E Morris Griffiths
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Jane

Civil Parish: Holyhead

Edward Marries 77
Jane Marries 73
E Morris Griffiths 5


I haven't checked the image to see what the other surname really is. Obviously, Edward and Jane are not the parents of the chlid.

1881

Morris GRIFFITH Head W Male 86 Llanbeblig, Caernarvon, Wales Farmer Of 200 Acres Employing 3 Men
Foulk GRIFFITH Son M Male 59 Llanberis, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Son
Jane GRIFFITH Daughter In Law M Female 54 Llanberis, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Wife
Morris GRIFFITH Grand Son U Male 27 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Son
John GRIFFITH Grand Son U Male 19 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Son
Foulk GRIFFITH Grand Son U Male 14 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Son
Alice GRIFFITH Grand Daughter U Female 9 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farmers Daughter
Jane WILLIAMS Servant U Female 18 Llanbeis, Caernarvon, Wales General Servant
Elizabeth WILLIAMS Servant U Female 27 Edeyrn, Caernarvon, Wales General Servant
John WILLIAMS Servant U Male 22 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farm Servant Indoor
Robert WILLIAMS Servant U Male 17 Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales Farm Servant (Indoor)


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Source Information:
Dwelling Tregarnedd
Census Place Llaniestyn, Caernarvon, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342335
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5560 / 28
Page Number 3

1881

Morris GRIFFITHS Head M Male 47 Clynnog, Caernarvon, Wales House Joiner
Margaret GRIFFITHS Wife M Female 54 Clynnog, Caernarvon, Wales
John Robert GRIFFITHS Son U Male 25 Liverpool, Lancashire, England No Occupation
Griffith Robert GRIFFITHS Son U Male 20 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Clerk
Morris GRIFFITHS Son U Male 15 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Clerk
James KENNEDY Lodger M Male 53 Dublin, Ireland Peir Master
William WALTERS Lodger U Male 57 Godalming, Surrey, England Clerk


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Source Information:
Dwelling 14 Esk St
Census Place Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341882
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3684 / 97
Page Number 13

Can you explain where your information about the names / dates / relationships came from?


This seems to be the 1891 household above, in 1881:


Name: Edward Morris
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Cwm, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanasa

Edward Morris 66
Jane Morris 62
Eliza Ellen Morris 14


Might Eliza Ellen be his mother?

This would be the child in the 1891 household I posted above:

Births Mar 1886
GRIFFITHS Edward Morris Holyhead 11b 4*

(would have to consult the image to get the correct page number)


I'm wondering whether what you have is a marriage certificate naming Morris Griffiths as father of Morris Griffiths.

In that case, I might suspect that the father's name was fabricated, and that the mother was in fact an unmarried Ms. Griffiths, and Morris was the father's surname. That was a common naming pattern for children of unmarried women -- to give the child the father's surname as a middle name.

In this case, it might be the other way around -- the child was registered in the father's surname, and the mother's surname was the middle name.

The thing is that there's no birth of a Morris Griffiths registered in Holyhead 1885-1895.

The Morris household I was looking at in 1891 was in Holywell district, and a Morris Griffiths was born there in 1849.

Guess we'll wait for some more info.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Mar 1865 (>99%)
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Griffiths Morris Carmarthen 11a 689

poss

Name: E M Griffiths
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: 3nd Crew Enyewers (Crew)
Gender: Male
Where born: Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Toxteth Dock Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: St Chars
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Jamison 45
E M Griffiths 24
Alex Grey 18
George Young 67
Fredrick R Ross 20
Charles Island 36
David Hendy 45
John Howells 25
Richard Frail 31
Alfred Staines 26
Charles Gustafson 28
Daniel Brogan 26


View
Original
source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2941; Folio 100; Page ; GSU roll: 6098051

n

n

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Festiniog 11b 366

Births Dec 1893 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris John Pontypridd 11a 519

Births Mar 1894 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Dolgelly 11b 351
Griffiths Morris Pontypridd 11a 528


Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Wrexham 11b 241


Births Mar 1895 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Carnarvon 11b 412

Births Jun 1895 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Dolgelly 11b 368a

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Cardiff 11a 420

One of these will be your grandfather who you said was 29 when he married.1919

Marriages Dec 1919 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris Purse Holyhead 11b 1151

Morris senior was deceased at the time of marriage and there are these deaths in Holyhead before that




Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)
GRIFFITHS Morris 65 Holywell 11b 135

Deaths Sep 1900 (>99%)
Griffiths Morris 51 Holywell 11b 147

I have only searched Griffiths so far. The name may also be recorded as Griffitt Griffith and other variations.

If morris seniors death was one of those two it would make his date of birth c1841 or c1849

Do you know the first name of Mrs Griffiths senior?
It would help with identification. Are there siblings etc?

I am sure all this info has been found before for you John ?



June x

We may all have got PMs from John, but just in case, this is the one I received yesterday:

the info i have on Morris Griffiths Snr comes from the Marriage certificate of Morris Jnr which states that at the time of the marriage in Dec 4 th 1919 Morris Snr was the father and deceased and that Mo Jnr was 29 years old and he married Florence Purse
I seem to have hit a frustrating brick wall at the moment and i think i will have to get a copy of Mo Jnrs birth cert to find out about his parentage
I much appreciate your interest and if you have any ideas i would be glad to hear them as i am a novice at family tree research

I explained how to reply in the thread and asked that he put that here, but I'll do it since he must not have been back to the site yet.


I have to note that the info on the marriage cert -- deceased father w/same name as groom -- is common in the case of children of unmarried mothers, who invent fathers when they marry. Morris could be his paternal grandfather's given name, and Griffiths his mother's surname, if that were the case, as that is a common naming pattern as well.

Certainly if you can identify a birth, order up the birth certificate!

I would particularly like to help as I have a large Griffith family in Llanasa Flintshire and some untraced lines. Just need more input.

Evie I think John tried to add the info you just gave yesterday but added a new thread instead. Ann of Green Gables pointed out the difficulty of doing this and suggested he stick to one thread. I think the other is now getting lost in GR Archives.

Ah, he seems to have sensibly deleted it. ;) (I searched the boards for the name.)

John -- really it's easy. As you read this, look up top right under

Trying to Find: morris griffiths

There's a button that says REPLY. Click it. A box opens to type a message in. When you're done, click the button under the box that says SUBMIT. Bingo.

Hopefully you and John will find some connection, Christine!

Thank you all just trying to get my head around things
John

I have just found out that Morris Jnr was living at No 1 Cader Rd Dolgellau in Merioneth at the time of his marriage and moved over to Holyhead after he married so he could have been born in Dolgellau still searching for birth info in order to get a cert
John

1901


Name: Morris Griffith
Age in 1901: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Morris
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanfachreth, Merionethshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanfachreth
Ecclesiastical parish: Llanfachreth St Machreth
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub registration district: Barmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members: Name Age
Morris Griffith 44
Margaret Griffith 43
Morris Griffith 10
Ellen Griffith 8
Laura Catherine Griffith 7
Jane Griffith 4
James Griffith 2




June x