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Hi Girls

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but what is the parentage of Duncan McGregor, aged 10 years living with Margaret Mitchell in 1851? And Elizabeth and Janet...............??

Do you think Agnes married her brother-in-law? How else could these children have such similar ages?

I thought that they may have been Duncan's from a first marriage?
He was about six years older than her and it wasn't her first marriage, so it's very possible it wasn't his!

Hi again, Alexander's occupation was mason and Duncan's now looks like hammerman not housepainter , really difficult to read some of these.
Rootgatherer, I was born in anderston, Argyle street, but moved to london when i was a wee girl, is that anywhere near where you are?
Catherine I will take a look for the marraige and let you know
best wishes jean

hammerman, housepainter, who cares it all fits.
So we can now be sure the first 1841 census entry is the correct one so we have Agnes from 1841 to her death in 1874!

Hello Jean

I now live in Dennistoun and work at one time just off the Gallowgate - hence I have not a bad knowledge of the Calton!!


PS My Great Grandmother lived in Argyle Street - probably about 50 years before you!!

On scotland people there is a death for a

Duncan McGregor
Born: 1816
Died: 1875
County: Lanarkshire

but is it our Duncan?

Hello Catherine, can't find a marraige on opr on scotland's people for alexander and agnes , don't know where else to look for that. I'm going to check on the death for Duncan.

Rootgatherer,
Seriously thinking of taking a trip to the mitchell just to try and get this puzzle sorted out , getting a slight headache now, as I am sure you two must have as well. can't beleive how much help you are giving me.
I lived at 430, argyle street born there in 1947 and left late 50's been back a few times,some of it has changed but not central station.
jean

Hi Catherine, you were right about the death cert.it is Duncan.died 15.6.1875.(hammerman), widow of 1st. Mary Cuthbertson.
2nd. Agnes Mitchell.
Parents Duncan (wood forrester) and Elizabeth nee Ferguson.both decd.
Death cert.signed by his son Duncan McGregor, same address 18.Calder Street, South.
Thinking maybe duncan and his sisters who are living with the grandmother in '51 are 1st wife's . ( I really don't know anymore)
If I don't hear from you again I will understand.
jean

Oh, I just love it when it all fits into place. I thought that the children must be his from a previous marriage................ here it is:-

DUNCAN MCGREGOR - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 DEC 1842 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Spouse: MARY CUTHBERTSON

but can't find any births for this couple and on scotlands people you can't look for deaths before 1855 so that's not going to help find a death for Mary!
Drat!!!

scotland people:-
Births
Name: McGregor
Forname: Duncan
Parent name: Duncan
Parent name: Elizabeth
Date: 14 September 1816
County: Argyll
District:Glassary

all seems to fit but on familysearch the same one shows only mothers maiden name does not fit with death record?:-

DUNCAN MCGREGOR - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 14 SEP 1816 Glassary, Argyll, Scotland
Father: DUNCAN MCGREGOR
Mother: ELIZABETH MCGILP

just realised that this is one I posted earlier!

Look what I've just stumbled on:-

1841
Name: Duncan McGregor
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Glasgow St Pauls
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Tarbet St
Parish Number: 644/1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Cuthbertson 45 - born:Lanarkshire (Muslin Sewer)
<<<<Mary Cuthbertson 20 - born:Lanarkshire (Muslin Sewer)
Marion Cuthbertson 20
Janet Cuthbertson 20
Isabella Cuthbertson 15
<<<<Duncan McGregor 1

this looks like Duncan (son of Duncan) living with his mother and Grandmother!

Birth/Christening, 1811 - 1831, Lanark, Scotland, British Isles
Father: William Cuthbertson, Mother: Elisabeth Sharp

MARRION CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 SEP 1816
Gender: Female Christening: 15 SEP 1816 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

JANET CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 FEB 1819
Gender: Female Christening: 16 MAR 1819 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

ISOBELLA CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 14 AUG 1825
Gender: Female Christening: 28 AUG 1825 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

MARY CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 SEP 1814
Gender: Female Christening: 16 OCT 1814 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

HELEN CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 MAR 1824
Gender: Female Christening: 18 APR 1824 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

ELISABETH CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 04 FEB 1812
Gender: Female Christening: 04 MAR 1812 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

JOHN CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 APR 1813
Gender: Male Christening: 18 APR 1813 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

MARGARET CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 JUN 1828
Gender: Female Christening: 15 JUN 1828 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

WILLIAM CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 04 DEC 1820
Gender: Male Christening: 31 DEC 1820 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

So it now reads:-

John Mitchell married Ann Oliphand (t) in 1815
Daughter Agnes was born in 1822.
Agnes married Alexander Stewart (date unknown)
Daughter Ann born 1841
Daughter Margaret born 1843
Alexander dies between 1842/43 and 1849

can't find births for Ann and Margaret?

Duncan McGregor marries Elizabeth Ferguson
James McGregor born 1816 Glassary, Argyll
Son Duncan born 1840
Duncan marries Mary Cuthbertson (born 1814) in 1842
Daughter Elizabeth born 1844 (presumed daughter)
Daughter Janet born 1846 (presumed daughter)
Mary dies between 1845/6 and 1849

Duncan marries Agnes in 1849
Agnes dies in 1874
Duncan dies in 1875

Can't find a birth for Elizabeth and Janet McGregor with parents Duncan and Mary?
It is possible of course that Mary died earlier and Elizabeth and Janet were illegitimate children to someone else?

Good Morning Girls

I really should be working but this is like a good book that you just can't put down!!

Jean - When you come home to Glasgow, you can look at the cemetery records held in the Mitchell Library. You have death dates for Agnes and Duncan. If you find which cemetery they are buried in, you will then have a lair number. You can then contact the cemetery department and find out who else is buried in the lair. This could lead you to the death dates for Alexander Stewart and/or Mary Cuthbertson.

I am wondering if Agnes did actually marry Alexander Stewart or was just known as Mrs Stewart - remember that we have Ann and Margaret with the surname Mitchell on one census and Stewart on another!

I agree that the McGregor children living with step grandma seem to be Duncan's children from his first marriage.


PS I think that I need to 'phone the Mitchell and check the opening times for the bit that has the poor relief records - not sure if it is opened in the evenings or Saturdays. If not it will have to wait until the Easter Holidays but I don't want to wait that long!!

Good morning to you both, isn't it exciting , I feel it is finallyslotting into place, I have had a few puzzles with other family members but not like this lot !!!. Hope i am not stopping you both from working .. So in 1841 Duncan jnr is living with another grandma , but as rootgatherer said this is how families lived then , all sharing living accomadation.I still think Elizabeth and Janet are Duncan's and Mary's, . Off now to do some more digging.

Thanks for the info on cemeteries roorgatherer i will keep that in mind when i come.

regards jean

Hello,
Wasn't up at the crack of dawn, I'm an hour ahead of you over here.
My sons just come back from Uni for the Easter break so I have piles of washing all over the floor, but this is much more interesting!!

Duncan (the son) was born in 1840 and the couple, Duncan and Mary didn't marry until 1842 so quite normal that mother and son were living with mother's parents in 1841 census.
I also think the two girls are Duncan and Mary's children but that's one of the loose ends that need tying up. Don't know why I can't find a birth for them?

I too was wondering about the marriage with Alexander but then why on her death record is she noted as being his widow? Would she be allowed to take his name if she hadn't married him, and don't forget I did find Alexander and Agnes together in 1841 census.

Tried to find a birth "again" for Margaret Stewart. Couldn't find anything on familysearch,
and nothing on scotlands people with father Alexander but came up with two with mother Agnes:-

1st: Margaret Stewart born: 29 May 1842, Lanarkshire, mother Agnes.
2nd: Margaret Stewart born: 23 Feb. 1844, Lanarkshire, mother Agnes.

Don't know which district though.

Same for Ann but nothing with mother Agnes on scotlands people, but two with father Alexander:-

1st: Ann Stewart born 25 Nov. 1841, Lanarkshire, father Alexander
2nd: Ann Stewart born 24 April 1842, Lanarkshire, father Alexander

Don't know which district.

This is so frustrating!

Scotland people marriage search:-

Surname: Stewart
Forname: Alexander
Spouses name: Agnes
Date from: 1 Jan.1839
Date to: 31 Dec.1845 (narrowed down to 1841)
County: Lanark

search found 3 matches
One in 1839
One in 1840
One in 1841

In 1841 the couple were living in Gorbals and the 1839 match is in the district of Gorbals?

Will look in later to see if anything has come to light!

Catherine

That looks hopeful for the Stewart marriage. Just not sure why the Girls were on the 1851 census as Mitchell though especially when the others were listed as McGregor.

Regrading the name thing - in Scotland it is quite legal to be known as any name you choose as long as no fraud is intended. You can change your name here without going through any legal process.

Certainly years ago it was common for unmarried women especially with children to use the partner's surname. In fact, just last week I found my grandfather's cousin on the 1901 census - he was 2 days old in the Maternity Hospital with his unmarried mother using his father's surname. Incidentally, the couple didn't marry until 25 years later!!! Strange as they were both free to marry.

PS - an hour time difference........I hope you are not basking in sunny climes!! It's bright and sunny in Glasgow but a very cold wind.

Hello again you two, , Catherine, you have been busy, I found the same marraige details on scotlands people just came back to post it and you already have so thank you . I'm having problems with trying to access Scotlands People today, how about you ? Iam still looking for births for Margaret and Ann.

jean

Found this death certificate for Duncan Jnr. ( hammerman ), parents Duncan Mcgregor dec. and Mary nee Cuthbertson dec., he married Elizabeth nee Portland. His son John McGregor signed the certificate. Died 27.8.1898 aged 58.
Not having much luck with births for Margaret and Ann Stewart.
jean