Find Ancestors

Please could anyone help me find my gt grandfathers parents. He was George Alfred Elder born 1884 at Coleshill Warwickshire. There does not appear to be any record of his birth.

My gran tells me that he was illegitimate and from the age of 6 weeks was brought up by his mothers sister. His mother was supposed to have had a relationship with a gardener called Samuel Elder and didn't keep George.On 1891 census he is shown with Joseph Bailey, Martha Bailey born c1848 at Higham on the Hill Leicestershire and their daughter Elizabeth. George is listed as a boarder aged 6 years. In 1901 he is still with the Bailey family and still living in Mickleover Derby.

Freebmd shows marriage for Joseph Bailey and Martha Ann Jacques Sept 1874 at Hinkley Leics. On the same page was a Mary Jacques and Henry Dabbs.

1851 census shows Martha has a brother James 7 yrs and sisters Mary 5 yrs and Sarah 3 months all born Higham.

Mary and Henry Dabbs lived in Coleshill Warwickshire both before and after Georges birth. My thoughts were that Mary may have been his mother because she was Marthas sister and the fact she lived in Coleshill. I am struggling to find out info on Sarah Jacques.

I answered Lesleys thread about Hitting a Brick Wall and appreciate the help she has given but I still do not have an answer. Lesley found that there was a Martha Jacques born c1861 and was a servant at Ivy Lodge Ladies High School in the 1881 census. Lesley thought that perhaps this Martha may have been related to Martha Bailey. When I asked my gran if Martha Bailey could have been Aunt to Georges mother not George she didn't know, it's always been said that Martha Bailey was his aunt.

My gran tells me her dads birthday was 22nd Nov. I have found a birth in Dec 1/4 1884 in the name of Jacques Male but born Aston Birmingham. I have checked with Birmingham but the names I gave did not tally.

George must have had some connection with Polesworth because apparently he used to visit there.

On Georges 1st marriage certificate his age is given as 25 (in April 1909) father named as Samuel Elder (deceased). I have been unable to locate his 2nd marriage to Miriam Bettinson Martin. He re-married some years after my gt gran died in 1937.

George accompanied his daughter (my gran)to the Derbyshire Royal Infirmary at Xmas 1936 and pointed out the ward his mother had died on but she never knew her name.

My gran is still with us and is now 98 and I would dearly love to be able to tell her who his parents were. I've also struggled with finding Samuel Elder in the right area.

Please could someone help.

If he was brought up by the Bailey's could in fact it be his UNCLE who has took him in?

Could this be his birth?

Births Jun 1884
Bailey George Alfred Birmingham 6d 171

Tracey

could be a connection from way way back!!!!Husband
GEORGE MATHEW THE ELDER Pedigree


Birth:
Christening:
Marriage: About 1553 Berkswell, Warwick, England
Death: 20 APR 1610
Burial:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wife
MRS. GEORGE MATHEW THE ELDER Pedigree


Birth: About 1562
Christening:
Marriage: About 1553 Berkswell, Warwick, England
Death:
Burial:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Children

None

Husband
GEORGE MATHEW THE ELDER Pedigree


Birth:
Christening:
Marriage: About 1553 Berkswell, Warwick, England
Death: 20 APR 1610
Burial:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wife
MRS. GEORGE MATHEW THE ELDER Pedigree


Birth: About 1562
Christening:
Marriage: About 1553 Berkswell, Warwick, England
Death:
Burial:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Children

None

1881 census
Thomas FROST Head W Male 65 Belper, Derby, England Farmer 144 Acres 2 Lab 1 Boy
Sarah A. FROST Daur U Female 29 Beeby, Leicester, England
Annie RACH Visitor U Female 30 Sheepshead, Leicester, England
Sarah JAQUES Servt U Female 23 Hoton, Leicester, England Domestic
William PROUDMAN Servt U Male 16 Thrussington, Leicester, England Farm Servt


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Farm House
Census Place Hungarton, Leicester, England
Family History Library Film 1341745
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3123 / 88
Page Number 18

Thanks folks for the help so far.

I had discounted Joseph Bailey as being his uncle as I thought George would have been shown as nephew instead of boarder but being new to this I suppose nothing would surprise me.

Chris

It's quite common for step or adoptive members to be mis listed.

I have a relative whom was the step daughter to my GGGfather, he was the head of house and listed her as a servant !!!

Nothing on the census's should be taken as gospel !!

Have you tried ordering any certs yet?


Tracey

Hi Tracey,

Although the year of that birth is right my gran is insistant that his borthday is 22nd November.

Chris

I paid on my debit card for a copy of the Jacques birth Dec 1/4 1884 and put all info in e-mail. Birmimngham RO contacted me to say that the names did not match so would not be taking payment. I have his 1st marriage certificate and his death certificate.

The only problem with data from elderly relatives is it can get confused over the years.... or indeed the gentleman himself may not have known when his actual birthday was!!!!

Lots of people have been biten by this tack. You need to explore all avenues and not discount anything put forwards.

I would certainly think about ordering the Bailey cert and see what happens.



Tracey

Tracey you've certainly got me thinking. If this is his birth I wonder why the name change.

Before logging off I wanted to say thanks for the help given so far it really is appreciated.

Chris

Long shot :-)

Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
Alder Alfred George Banbury 3a 868

There is no name change?

He was Illegitimate and his mother was a Bailey.....!!!

He may have been 'given' the name Elder to prevent people around knowing he was illegitimate! Happened ALOT !!!

You'll be surprised how many people on here suddenly discover their Great Grandparents were not married when they had Granny or the name Granny grew up with was not the name she was born under!!

Thats the joy of all this the suprises!!!Not everything is as it appears to be..



Tracey

My great grandfather's surname was Cartwright when in fact his birth certificate says Woodhead-his parents weren't married. Alway's keep an open mind.

Hi,

Thanks for all the in put so far.

So I take it that George could have been named Bailey at birth but was later called Elder for whatever reason. I have to admit I wasn't fully convinced that his father was named Samuel Elder having read other threads on here where I've learnt that on marriage certificates a fathers name may have been made up and the word deceased included.Going by the 1891 census he was Elder. I am going to research Joseph Bailey later today and see what I can come up with.

Chris

Hi Tracey,

Just to let you know I have taken your advice and ordered the birth certificate for George Bailey. I twill be a fantastic result if it is the right one. If its not I can always put the details on bmdshare.com. I've been researching Joseph Bailey and my head is spinning, I never thought it would be this confusing and frustrating. Naive or what.

Chris

Hi to those who have tried to help,

I now have George Alfred Baileys birth certificate and it does not relate to my gt grandfather. Whilst waiting for the certificate I found George Bailey on 1891 census living with both parents and siblings. So it's thinking cap back on again. Once again thanks for help so far.

Chris

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear it was the wrong cert :-(

You could post the details on bmdshare.com if you wanted to pass it on.

Regards
LfW

Updated
Just spotted you already know of bmdshare :-)

Just for ref/info

1891 census transcription details for: Mickleover Common, Mickleover
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 2197 Folio: 47 Page: 6

Reg. District: Burton Upon Trent Sub District: Repton
Enum. District: 5 Ecclesiastical District: All Saints Mickleover
Parish: Mickleover City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Mickleover Common, Mickleover
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
BAILEY, Joseph Head Married M 41 1850 Water Man Of Gas Meters
Mickleover, Derbyshire
BAILEY, Martha A Wife Married F 43 1848
Higham On The Hill, Leicestershire
BAILEY, Elizabeth A Daughter F 12 1879 Scholar
Littleover, Derbyshire
ELDER, George Alfred Boarder M 6 1885 Scholar
Coleshill, Warwickshire