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My uncle agreed to doing a DNA test to try and help prove who George Alfred Elder's father was. Just over two weeks after getting his results we have now confirmed that it was Samuel Elder who was a gardener. Lost for Words had found census records and death registration for the right man although there was no way to prove it before. Samuel only gave his correct year of birth on the 1921 census. I now have his baptism record and have been able to progress further back and have been in contact with cousins matched through DNA.

Than you so much for all those that helped in the search all those years ago.

Chris

Thank you for your replies AustinQ yes I have the marriage certificate, gives his father as Samuel Elder a gardener.

My Avatar is the Edith Elder in the newspaper article.

I hadn't come across the baptism but I think I have the birth certificate which turned out to be wrong.

Chris

Derby Daily Telegraph - Tuesday 11 January 1938

Re Mrs Harriett Elder Deceased
Pursuant to the Trustee Act 1925
Notice is hearby given that all persons having claims against the estate of Harriett Elder, late of 9 Stanley Street in the County Borough of Derby wife of George Alfred Elder (who died on the 3rd day of July 1937 and to whose Estate Letters of Administration were granted tot he said George Alfred Elder and Edith Fentem on the 7th day of August 1937 by the Principal Registry of the Probate Division of the High Court of Justice) are hereby....
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No Idea if connected:-
Baptism??
First name(s) George Alfred
Last name Elder
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1881
Baptism date 17 Apr 1881
Residence Coventry, Warwick, England
Place Coventry
County Warwickshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Alfred
Father's last name Elder
Mother's first name(s) Martha

I've not looked into this before- it's been a while since your post, but I take it you know have the second marriage of your Grandfather:

First name(s) MIRIAM B
Last name MARTIN
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1949
spouse: George A Elder
Spouse's last name Elder
District Cleethorpes
County Lincolnshire
Volume 3B Page 524
---------------------------------------------

1939:

Elder Household (2 People) 9 Stanley Street , Derby C.B., Derbyshire, England

Geo Alfred Elder 22 Nov 1884 Male House Decorator Married
Miriam B (Mildred) Elder (Martin) 18 Sep 1909 Female Home Keeper Single 90 2

I received my Ancestry DNA results today.

I received a Shared Ancestry Hint notification with someone, our common ancestors were the parents of Elizabeth Jacques who I had thought could possibly have been George Alfred Elders mother. I've still not found a birth record for George but I now feel the mystery has been solved.

I'm now hoping I will eventually get to the bottom of who George's father was.

Looks like a full house, all still alive and kicking :-) Here's Charles:

1871 census transcription details for: Hollis Lane, Chesterfield
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10 Piece: 3609 Folio: 85 Page: 15

Reg. District: Chesterfield Sub District: Chesterfield
Enum. District: 5 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Chesterfield City/Municipal Borough: Chesterfield
Address: Hollis Lane, Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire

And is this Sarah and Jane working for the same household:

1871 census transcription details for: Haley Green Lily Hill, Warfield
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10 Piece: 1295 Folio: 15 Page: 21

Reg. District: Easthampstead Sub District: Bracknell
Enum. District: 8 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Warfield City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Haley Green Lily Hill, Warfield
County: Berkshire

Emma is still alive:

1871 census transcription details for: Rectory House, Bedworth
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10 Piece: 3173 Folio: 144 Page: 15

Reg. District: Foleshill Sub District: Foleshill
Enum. District: 23 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Bedworth City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Rectory House, Bedworth
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation, Where Born

JACQUES, Emma Servant F 15 1856 Leicestershire

Hi LfW,

You are an absolute star.

That has to be the same family. There are two children shown in 1861 that are not on the 1871 census but they may have died and in 1871 it's Susannah but that must be Susan in 1861.

I now feel I may be getting somewhere.

Thank you so much for your help. I will keep you updated.

Chris

Ancestrys transcription, you may want to submit a correction


1861 England Census about Charles Ingnes
Name: Charles Ingnes
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Three Pole, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Higham On The Hill
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Hi Chris

Would this be them

1861 census transcription details for: Village Street, Higham On The Hill
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 2261 Folio: 74 Page: 10

Reg. District: Hinckley Sub District: 2 Hinckley
Enum. District: 10 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Higham On The Hill City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Village Street, Higham On The Hill
County: Leicestershire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
JAQUES, Charles Head Married M 42 1819 Farm Labourer
The Poles, Warwickshire
JAQUES, Martha Wife Married F 42 1819 Labourers Wife
Hinckley, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Sarah A Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar
Higham, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Jane Daughter F 8 1853 Scholar
Higham, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Charles Son M 7 1854 Scholar
Higham, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Emma Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar
Higham, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Geo Son M 3 1858
Higham, Leicestershire
JAQUES, Susan Daughter F 1 1860
Higham, Leicestershire

Hi everyone,

MISSING IN 1861

My gran suddenly remembered today that her dads mothers name was Elizabeth. (Apparently my gran was going to be named Elizabeth but her dad wouldn't allow it).I found the parents of his aunt who brought him up on the 1851 census. They were Charles c1819 Higham on the |Hill and Martha Jacques c1819 Hinkley and had 4 children. I cannot find any of them on the 1861 census. In 1871 Charles and Martha are shown with three other children one of whom is named Elizabeth. I feel that it must be the same Charles and Martha but wish I could find them on the 1861 to confirm.

Could a fresh pair of eyes please try and find them for me.

Chris

Hi LfW,

Thank you so much for continuing to try and help me. After your input re Samuel Elder I have looked at all the Samuel Elders I can find and the one you have entered is the only one whose occupation is listed as a gardener which I find quite exciting. I just wish there was a way of finding where he was living 1883/4.

Chris

Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
>>> Elder Samuel Louth 7a 1104
JACKLIN Henry Louth 7a 1104
>>> Robinson Sarah Ann Louth 7a 1104
Vickers Charlotte Emma Louth 7a 1104


1901 England Census about Samuel Elder
Name: Samuel Elder
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Figgshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Sculcoates
Ecclesiastical parish: Newland St John
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub registration district: Cottingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 75
Household Members:
Name Age
Archie Elder 3
Joy Elder 8
Minnie Elder 12
Rose Elder 6
Samuel Elder 46
Sarah A Elder 38

Hi,

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to find out the area someone was living in between censuses.

Chris

Hi LfW,

Wow you've certainly been busy, thank you.

The name and ocupation are spot on, the only discrepancy is year of death. My gt grandad was first married in April 1909 and on the certificate states father Samuel Elder deceased. I've researched the Jacques family from a differnt angle. I've looked at the possibility of Martha Bailey (nee Jacques) being his mothers aunt and not his aunt. I have found a possible Hannah c1870 born Higham Leics. Father is James c1844 mother Ann c1843. In 1851 Martha has brother James c1844 aswell as her two sisters. In 1881 James is with 2nd wife Sarah (Ann had died) it states Sarah is mum to Hannah and the other children In 1891 Hannah is a servant in Herefordshire.In 1901 Hannah still unmarried and living at home with dad James and his third wife Harriet. I suppose it is a possibility and worth re-checking with Birmingham registry office now I have the name Hannah as a possibility.

Chris

Deaths Mar 1928 (83%)
Elder Samuel 79 Sculcoates 9d 275

1881 census transcription details for: 24 Stockmore St, Cowley
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 1497 Folio: 126 Page: 35

Reg. District: Headington Sub District: St Clement
Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Cowley City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 24 Stockmore St, Cowley
County: Oxfordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
COOMBES, John Head Married M 34 1847 Carpenter
Shipton, Oxfordshire
COOMBES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 32 1849 Carpenter Wife
Lidstone, Oxfordshire
COOMBES, William H Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar
Oxford, Oxfordshire
COOMBES, Charles E Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar
Oxford, Oxfordshire
COOMBES, Christian M Daughter Single F 2 1879
Oxford, Oxfordshire
COOMBES, Magdelene M Daughter Single F 0 1881
Oxford, Oxfordshire
ELDER, Samuel Boarder Single M 26 1855 Gardener (D)
Scotland

This is interesting, look at the occupation!?! Straws clutching at :-)

1891 census transcription details for: Beverley Road, Cottingham, Newland, Kingston Upon Hull
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 3915 Folio: 27 Page: 10

Reg. District: Sculcoates Sub District: Cottingham
Enum. District: 7 Ecclesiastical District: St Johns Newland
Parish: Cottingham City/Municipal Borough: Kingston Upon Hull
Address: Beverley Road, Cottingham, Newland, Kingston Upon Hull
County: Yorkshire (East Riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
ELDER, Samuel Head Married M 36 1855 Gardener
Scotland
ELDER, Sarah A Wife Married F 38 1853
Ludford, Lincolnshire
ELDER, Arthur R Son M 4 1887 Scholar
Burgh-Upon-Bain, Lincolnshire
ELDER, Minnie Daughter F 2 1889
Hull, Yorkshire

Looks like a dead end :-(

Marriages Mar 1851 (97%)
BROOKS ELIZABETH HACKETT SHARDLOW 19 561
Swift George Shardlow 19 561