Find Ancestors

Rheumatic fever gives Heart problems in later life.



Flaxman road is a few yards into Lambeth but in the suburb of Camberwell.
Possible boundaries have moved slightly.

1891 census - address transcription
Address: 97, Flaxman Road, Lambeth

13 WARR, William Head Married M 25 1866 Joiner
Sherborne
Dorsetshire
13 WARR, Caroline Wife Married F 27 1864
Milborne Port
Somersetshire
13 WARR, Mable Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Sherborne
Dorsetshire
13 WARR, Gertrude Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar
Lambeth
London
13 WARR, Grace M Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar
Lambeth
London
13 THEATES, Francis Boarder Single M 27 1864 Printer Compositor
Sherborne
Dorsetshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14 WHITEHEAD, Ellen H Head Widow F 27 1864
Sherborne
Dorsetshire
14 WHITEHEAD, Ellen M Daughter F 4 1887
Brixton
London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15 MINBRIDGE, Ann E Lodger F 42 1849 Book Binders Forewoman
London

Although numbering may have changed.

1881 census - address transcription
Address: 97, Flaxman Rd, Lambeth

900 NICHOLLS, Allen W Head Married M 28 1853 Warehouseman
So Norwood
Surrey VIEW
900 NICHOLLS, Mary A Wife Married F 25 1856
Chelsea
Middlesex VIEW
900 NICHOLLS, Allen P P Son Single M 3 1878
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW
900 NICHOLLS, Emmie B Daughter Single F 0 1881
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW

Thanks LadyKira, So he was sent to that address in 1888 aged almost 4. However in 1891 when he would have been 7 he is not there by name and neither is any other Hill. Now I am going back to look for the posts werer Frederick lived as a boarder with other families.

I did wonder if the address may have been an orphanage or school or boarding house.

Heavens I am so thick. Just going back over the whole thread. On 3 Apr I posted this bit of info from the embarkation rolls. The last name in a group of four. It is him. As I found out a couple of days ago.


FWH 604 37th Battalion 1916-1917 Returned to Aus

Well have just scrolled through the thread. With great difficulty I might add. GR is very slow and very hesitant today.

There is no mention of any of the names listed above by LadyKira. Been looking for a Hill living as a boarder or a student.

Back to the drawing board. And actually off to work before they phone to find out where I am and I have to tell them I'm searching London in the 1880s.

Just had a thought about looking through the school admission registers in the London area and found this info on line. Looks interesting. So I have just emailed them and said, "help". Ah more bald people running around the place.


"London Metropolitan Archives and Guildhall Library Manuscripts Section are working in partnership with Ancestry™ to digitise genealogical sources.

Over 11 million parish register entries are already available at Ancestry.co.uk along with poor law sources which include workhouse records. Further records to be added in the coming months include:

Additional poor law documents - relating to the administration of poor relief, including more workhouse registers from 1834 onwards
London school admissions – records from 843 individual London schools dating from the early Victorian times through to 1911, providing admission and personal details for millions of London students
It is anticipated that the full digitisation and indexing program will include:

Parish baptisms, marriages and burials
Bishops transcripts
Parish poor law records
Boards of Guardians records
Diocesan marriage bonds and allegations
Non-conformist baptisms, marriages and burials
School admission and discharge registers
Electoral registers, overseers returns and poll books
Land tax records
Wills
City of London Freedoms
Middlesex Sessions – Transportation Contracts
We will provide free access to view the indexes and images through Ancestry.co.uk on the computer terminals in our public rooms. The program will start shortly and we will release further information about the project over the coming months."

Just keeping things together. Have been looking at a death in SA Keswick military hospital in 1936. Found a corresponding death notice in a Melbourne newspaper. Gave name of father, mother and wife. No match for this FW Hill. back to the drawing board.

From the list on page 1. 28 Feb 2010. Score 0/2

Sep 1887
HILL Frederick William…….. Kensington London…….. 1a 96

30 Jun 1887 father Frederick William Hill, mother Mary Hill, formerly Quick. Occupation of father Canteen Sergeant. Birth registered by mother on 23 Jul 1887. Address Kensington Barracks Kensington Town Middlesex..

Jun 1888
HILL Frederick William…….. Mile End London…….. 1c 465

7 Apr 1888. Father George Charles Hill, mother Elizabeth Alice Hill formerly Sharp. Occupation of father Journeyman, Brass Moulder. Birth registered by mother, address 20 Etinouth (??) Street Mile End Middlesex.

Just so you know you're not all alone ...

I looked at the FW with father FW in the 1891 and 1901. Father was 1891 army pensioner, 1901 shoemaker.

However, in 1901 he has a different wife. Elizabeth, not Mary, born Lincolnshire, not Somerset. I.e., that FW was orphaned young re mother.

1911

HILL FREDERICK WILLIAM 1858 53 Wandsworth London

but too many Hills for me to tell who with.

Interestingly, there is no Frederick Hill marriage to Mary Quick. Quick, btw, is a good Cornwall name. ;)


The FW with parents George Charles and mother Elizabeth Alice -- I'm not seeing him in 1891. There's a GCH death 1890 in Lambeth age 40, and one 1896 in Wandsworth aged 33. No Elizabeth Alice deaths 1888-1901 of right age in right place.

Marriages Sep 1887
HILL George Charles Mile End 1c 822
SHARP Elizabeth Alice Mile End 1c 822


I'm still considering the possibility of the father's name in the records you have being just wrong, for whatever reason, or a stepfather's given names ...

Thank you Janey. The info abouve is taken from the certificates I now have in my possession. If they fit any of your Hill(s) you are welcome to them. As is anyone else who reads this thread.

I now have a request into GRO for the next two Frederick William Hill births on my list. Given your uncanny gift for locking into the correct options I am beginning to believe you just may be right with your theory about the parent name being incorrect.

I am still wondering whether Frederick may have actually been born in Australia. The only information against this theory is his journey from UK to Oz. I must go back and read that again.

The important piece of info is that he left Sydney to go to UK on board the Orontes not the other way around.

Oh damn I'm off with the fairies again. However if he was a passenger on a ship coming to Australia in addition to his voyage on the Orontes that might give me another lead.

By the way. Did you know that the woman FW Hill married in 1919 had a father who was a shoemaker!!

Also what if Ernest was Frederick's older brother. Say ten years older. Frederick did not know his parents names and he was brought up only knowing his brother who acted in loco parentis.

Brother's name is indeed one possibility -- especially maybe if he just assumed brother was named for father, being the oldest and all.

I've also seen mother's father and mother's brother as stand-ins for father on a marriage certificate, where parents weren't married and groom didn't know or didn't want to name father with a different surname.


And by the way -- I finally found my father's father -- i.e. no relation to the name-shifting Hills on my mum's side -- in the 1911 this past week -- and the given names below are true, just totally coincidental!

His name was
first name [we'll say John], middle name Frederick, surname "X",
born in the early 1890s.

His father's name was William Frederick X.

So what is my grfather's name, in the military in 1911? Frederick William X.

He had enrolled in the military sometime before he was of age, I assume (the tale we always heard was age 13, a drummer boy in Egypt), using a fake name amounting to his father's name, in reversed order.

He married my grmother under his real name before WWI ended, and stayed in the military until 1921. But he doesn't appear to have come clean about his name (from what I can tell from his incoherent medal card) until 1925 when he requested reissuance of his medals in his real name.

I never would have suspected name-shifting on that side of the family. His family was quite prosperous, no bankruptcies or desertions or any such thing that I know of. I don't know why he would have made up a name to join the army -- it's not like by doing that he would have proved he was older than he was. Of course, no other WWI records of him have survived. Was he a juvenile delinquent on the lam?? One more mystery ...

But just to add another fake-name example to the catalogue!

Hi Janey, My apologies for leaving my "post". Reading with interest. Spent last three days climbing walls in hospital. Potentially serious wobbler tested and scanned and apparently not so serious. I need to catch up on my sleep and my life. Talk to you later.

Hi ten hours sleep has done wonders. I can think. OK re your GFX. You know he was in the Army, you know his official records did not survive.

Have you thought about searching (via google of course) through the records of the unit/company/battalion etc of which he was a member.

A great majority of these entities have their own web pages with lots of info about battles, where they were and the personnel involved during the wars. Sort of company history type reports.

Lovely to see you back Aunty,I do hope one is now very much back in the chair and all is well.

Night Night

Thank you FBG. It is great to be able to communicate again. Still a little weary but I think that is what happens when you sit around doing nothing for a spell.

Oh Botheration. Been very dumb. If I have the baptism info I do not need the birth certificate. All the info on the birth certificate is recorded on the baptism if it is in the London area. Have just wasted a certificate.

Hill Frederick William…….. Lambeth London…….. 1d 531

Name: Frederick William Hill
Record Type: Baptism and birth certificate
Date: 16 Jun 1889 birth 20 May 1889
Father's Name: Alfred Horace Hill
Mother's Name: Jane Hill formerly Harper
Parish: St Andrew, Stockwell Green
Borough: Lambeth
County: Middlesex
Address 16 Neeldon St Stockwell
Father's occupation: Compositor

The second of these certificates.

Sep 1886
Hill Frederick William…….. Wandsworth London…….. 1d 705
Frederick William Hill
Born 7 Jul 1886
42 Wandsworth Bridge Road, Wandsworth, Surrey
Father Charles Hill
Mother Sarah Caroline Hill, formerly Revell.
Fathers occupation: house painter.
Birth registered by mother on 28th July 1886.


I have sent GRO an email outlining my dilemma and requested their advice on whether they could help to narrow down the search field. I will wait for their reply before I order the next two certificates.

Just received my second lot of responses from GRO. They have now searched between 1886 and 1901 and have been unable to find a birth for Frederick William Hill with a father Ernest between those dates.

I am considering my next options. Search for William Frederick, father Ernest??? Or search for other combinations of those names.

At the other end of the life of FW Hill I have been unable to find his death. This would have been in Australia. There is one death which did not match any of his "known" information. It also gave details of his family in Australia. Is it worth tracking that very small clue. Working on the possibility that he might have been telling stories, all his life, about being born in the UK.

The other option of course is to forget the whole thing and put it down to one of those relatives who will never be discovered. A bit of a bummer when it is the grandfather.

Please do not go searching for info on this man for me. Trust me there is nothing the GRO has that has not been looked at. Of course if you are related to an FW Hill with the background detailed in this thread, you will contact me, please!!

Welllll .... I do believe in tracking every possibility for ruling out purposes, even if only for that.

If you can track the FW Hill whose demise is in question it would be worth it for that. For instance, would his marriage and children's births overlap when you know yours was married, that sort of thing.

Unless you try to rule him out, you can't know whether to consider ruling him in! ;)