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ErikaH
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1 Jul 2024 21:13 |
PM sent advising OP of need to monitor thread. OPENED
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ArgyllGran
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27 Jun 2024 09:21 |
1902 court record:
Joseph Charles Austin in the UK, Calendar of Prisoners, 1868-1929 Name Joseph Charles Austin Trial Age 33 Birth Date abt 1869 Trial Date 15 Oct 1902 Trial Place Winchester, Hampshire, England Occupation Soldier Charge Stealing Sentence 2 calendar months
The image of the typed record says he was charged with: "Stealing a letter containing £21, the property of Charles Godfrey Martyr, at Aldershot on the 18th September 1902, and feloniously receiving, well knowing same to have been stolen."
Cyril Godfrey Martyr in the UK, British Army Records and Lists, 1882-1962 Name Cyril Godfrey Martyr Rank Lieutenant Colonel Birth Date 5 Aug 1860 Military Year Oct 1902 Record Type List
Also some Fold3 records of C G Martyr in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry in earlier years, serving in the Sudan and elsewhere.
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ArgyllGran
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27 Jun 2024 09:00 |
On 15 Oct 1902, the Portsmouth Evening News apparently named him as Charles Joseph Austin (though I'm only looking at a transcription):
A COLOUR-SERGEANT SENT TO GCAL Charles Joseph Austin, 33. a colour-sergeant in the Hampshire Regiment, was brought up for sentence on charge of stealing letter containing £2l, the property of the commanding officer, Colonel Cyril Godfrey, Aldershot . . .
Published: Wednesday 15 October 1902 Newspaper: Portsmouth Evening News County: Hampshire, England
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 22:39 |
Greyghost.........one minor correction to your post. He joined the 3rd Battalion ((Batt'n) Hampshire Regiment. ie infantry Battery is a term used within Artillery Regiments
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greyghost
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26 Jun 2024 22:28 |
Various newspaper articles under name Joseph Charles Austin
15 Oct 1902 Portsmouth Evening News Colour Sergeant sent to Goal The letter he stole + £21 belonged to the Commanding officer Colonel Cyril Godfrey at aldershot on Sept. 18th. Prisoner said that by the verdict of the jury he was reduced to the ranks and discharged with disgrace and would lose £30 and asked the Chairman to take this into consideration. The chairman expressed powwow at seeing the prisoner in such a position on passing a sentence od 2 months hard labour.
----- 25 oct 1902 ....33, orderly room sergeant in a provisional battalion at Aldershot. .... Prisoners defence was that the money was lost through his neglect, but he had never used any of it himself, and he delayed to report the matter lest he should have been court martially for neglect. He had 10 years good character as a non-0commissioned officer. HE was found guilty and recommended to mercy. Sentence of 2 months hard labour was passed.
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greyghost
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26 Jun 2024 22:03 |
Attested age 18y 3m born parish of St Andrews, Plymouth. He was a Clerk before joining. Attested at Winchester, currently with 3 Battalion (word edited) Hants Regiment. 5' 4 ¾ ", 129 Ibs, Chest 33", Complexion fresh, Eyes Hazel, Hair Dark Brown, CofE
Appointed Orderly Room Sergeant 1.1.1900, posted, Promoted to Colour Sergeant 1.4.1901 In custody with civil power 3.10.1902 Tried and convicted by civil powers of felony 15.10.02, sentenced to 2 months imprisonment and sent to prison that date. Reduced to ranks on conviction by civil powers on 5.11.1902 under authority WO 105/37/10 Discharged under Para 1805 (6) K.R.
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Even today, I expect, a member of the Armed fForces, convicted by a civil court is liable to "Consequential punishment" by his own Service. Was certainly the case in the 1970's !
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ArgyllGran
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26 Jun 2024 21:42 |
That's very close to his alias of Josiah Charles Austin, as shown in the court records posted earlier.
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ErikaH
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26 Jun 2024 20:37 |
Using that Soldier number, his attestation into Hampshire Regiment on 21 Mar 1889 is with the names JOSEPH CHARLES Austin, age 18yrs, 4months Associated records are attached. On FMP…………
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 20:08 |
UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
Name J Austin Service Date 1899-1902 Service Place South Africa Campaign or Service South Africa-Second Boer War Regiment or Unit Name 2nd Battalion Hampshire Regimental Number 2771
image states rank as Sgt
Entitiled to Clasp- Paardeberg, Cape Colony
issued 1st April 1901
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ArgyllGran
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26 Jun 2024 13:09 |
Jink yes, of course you're right re penal servitude.
I knew "prison sentence" didn't sound right, but couldn't think of an alternative!
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ErikaH
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26 Jun 2024 13:03 |
In 1901, Emily was in Winchester, at the Regimental Depot, described as ‘wife of Sgt Austin’
There are NO Military records for him other than Medal cards, which relate to WW!
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ErikaH
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26 Jun 2024 12:59 |
His marriage record on FMP shows that he said he was a L/Cpl in the 2nd Hampshire Regiment. This was 10 Sep 1893
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greyghost
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26 Jun 2024 12:46 |
The newspaper report says that he was sentenced to 3 years penal servitude
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 12:24 |
And in case you didn't have them
1921 Census Of England & Wales 12, Richmond Terrace, Avonmouth, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Josiah Edwin Austin Head Male 1869 51 Plymouth, Devon, England Lighhouse Keeper Bristol Corporation, Bristol
Emily Austin Wife Female 1876 45 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Home Duties -
Eva E Austin Daughter Female 1901 19 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Carboard Box Maker J S Fry & Sons Ltd
Nora K Austin Daughter Female 1909 12 Avonmouth, Gloucestershire, England
Arthur R Austin Son Male 1910 10 Avonmouth, Gloucestershire, England
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1939 Register 30 Marshalls Way, Lea Valley, St Albans R.D., Hertfordshire, England
Charles P J Bloodworth 09 Nov 1913 Male Baker Foreman Married 66 1 Winifred M Bloodworth 04 Aug 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 66 2 The record for this person is officially closed.
Josiah E Austin 28 Nov 1869 Male Lighthouse Keeper Retired Married 66 4 Emily Austin 08 May 1876 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 66 5
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 11:58 |
AG- Just a thought, could the PS reference = Penal Servitude
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 11:38 |
First name(s) Josiah Edwin Theatre of war 1 Last name Austin Theatre of war description Western Europe Disembarkation year 1915 Remarks Cl. Z. 15.2.19. Disembarkation date 12 Oct 1915 Archive The National Archives Rank - Archive series WO 329 Rank as transcribed A/S. Archive reference WO 329/2843 Service number 335239 Record set Britain, First World War Campaign Medals Regiment Labour Corps Category Military, armed forces & conflict Previous unit 10. Bn. Glos. Rgt. Gloucester Rgt. 2390. Cpl. Subcategory First World War Medals awarded 1914-15 Star
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 11:35 |
I appriciate this is not 2nd Hampshire's information, as requested, but I thought it may be of some use to you. If, of course, it's your Josiah Austin
Medal card of Austin, Josiah E. Corps: Gloucestershire Regiment. Regiment No: 2390. Rank: Corporal.
War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War. Alezu A - Barnes C E. Medal card of Austin, Josiah E. Corps Regiment No Rank Gloucestershire Regiment 2390 Corporal. Labour Corps 335239 Acting Serjeant.
Held by: The National Archives, Kew - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies Date: 1914 - 1920 Reference: WO 372/1/155791 Subjects: Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Medals | Operations, battles and campaigns
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Jink20
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26 Jun 2024 11:21 |
The National Archives hold records of Courts Martial. If you haven't already done so, may I suggest registration with TNA ( Free) and once signed in you can research
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/courts-martial-desertion-british-army-17th-20th-centuries/#9-trials-of-non-commissioned-officers-and-other-ranks-1688-1986
For example:
Reference: WO 90/6 Description: Judge Advocate General's Office: general courts martial registers, abroad Date: 1900-1917 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Not all the records on the TNA website are available to view online, some require a request submission to Kew. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also consider contacting the Battalion museum. They have a research option
https://www.royalhampshireregiment.org/research/
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ArgyllGran
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26 Jun 2024 10:21 |
I don't see any army info for him on Ancestry, apart from this possible WW1 record:
Josiah Edwin Austin in the UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 Name Josiah Edwin Austin Military Year 1914-1920 Rank Sergeant Company WO 329 Regiment or Corps Labour Corps Regiment Number 335239 Medal Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal
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greyghost
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26 Jun 2024 10:21 |
From local papers, but maybe this is where you got the information about his Army "problem"
Not seeing any Service records for him
Hampshire Telegraph 6 August 1904 (same wording in the Evening News, 3 August (Portsmouth where they are reporting Portsmouth Quarter sessions)
A Heavy Sentence
Josiah Edwin Austin, 35, a clerk, pleaded guilty to feloniously stealing £28, the property of W.T. Avery Ltd, his employers at Portsmouth, on March 17th. - Mr S H Emmanuel for the prosecution, stated that the prisoner's crime was the more serious as he had abused a position of trust and had sought to throw blame on other persons. The police reported that the prisoner had been convicted of embezzlement while a colour sergeant in the Army, and Detective Inspector M|oore stated that after the theft the prisoner absconded from Portsmouth, and left his wife and children almost destitute. The prisoner subsequently gave himself up tp the police at Sheffield. The prisoner was sentenced to 3 years penal servitude.
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