Military Chat

"Some historians argue about whether in the first place James Agg was the actual designer since after this he never built anything anywhere and retired to England where he leads a good life."

https://tinyurl.com/yaskwyxg

The cathedral builder may have changed to become Assay Master later in his career. He may have been appointed to design the cathedral just because his father was a stonemason, so James too probably knew something about building and stone in general.

From the Landed Gentry BlogSpot:

"It seems likely that James was apprenticed to his father, but we know nothing of the further training or experience which led to his being appointed in 1777 as an assistant to Col. Henry Watson, the Chief Engineer of Bengal, and going out to India. After four years as a civilian in India, Agg joined the engineer's department of the East India Company's Bengal army, and he remained in that service until he came back to England on health grounds in about 1796.
St John's Cathedral, Calcutta, in 1826. Designed by James Agg, 1784-87.
In 1784-87 he was responsible for designing and building St. John's Cathedral in Calcutta, but this is the only building he is known to have designed."



As has already been said more than once - it seem too much of a coincidence for there to have been two James Aggs working for the EIC in the same place at the same time.

There's a lot of stuff about the Murshidabad (Moorshedabad) Mint online - but no mention of James Agg in connection with it.

Is there any further information on Lieutenant James Agg the assy master at Moorshedabad commissioned on 3 Nov 1785. With extra details on his working career or relationships will help draw a clear distinction between James Agg the Cathedral builder who was also with the East India Bengal Army in the 1780 & 1790's

Faithfull - Colonel Willlaim Conrad, C.B. - 29th Bengal Native Infantry - Died 16th March 1838.
Son of Richard and Martha Faithfull. Cadet 1798. Colonel 1829. Died on board the 'Cornwall' on passage to the Cape. Married Martha Agg 1805. Served at Aligarh and battle of Deig (4th N.I.), Capture of Java 1811 (4th Bengal Volunteers), capture of Almora, siege of Bhurtpore (wounded). CB 1831.
Tablet in St. John's Church, Calcutta - "Sacred to the memory of Colonel W.C. Faithfull who departed this life at sea on the 16th of March 1838 aged 55. During the long period of 35 years of military service in India, he was conspicuous for zeal and ability in the performance of his duties. engaged often on active service in the field with honourable distinctions, and on two occasions severley wounded. This memorial is erected by his afflicted widow and children."

There is another possible sibling for Maria Faithfull nee Agg.

A Frances Agg marries 1814 at Fort William.

First name(s) Frances
Last name Agg
Marriage year 1814
Marriage date 15 Sep 1814
Spouse's first name Charles
Spouse's last name Hedghinson
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Groom's father's first name -
Groom's father's last name -
Bride's father's first name -
Bride's father's last name -

No fathers' names to be recorded, but witnesses are MARGARET AGG , MARY ANN AGG , Emily Hodgkinson, Elizabeth Esther Stevens and a fifth name I can't read.

Sadly Frances died a couple of years later

First name(s) Frances
Last name Hodgkinson
Birth year 1791
Age 26
Burial date 11 Jul 1817
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-10
Folio -
Page 404
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials

Recorded as wife of Charles Hodgkinson. Age is transcribed as 26 yrs.

Trying to decipher the references to Miss Mary Agg, Miss Margaret Agg and Miss Mary Ann Agg, the inventory (1828) for James Agg died 1827 seems to be referring to allowances that were paid to them, and includes the phrase "subject to Mrs Agg's approval", which would seem to indicate that Edith Agg nee Gardner knew about her husband's children in India. Have yet to find any other trace of a Miss Mary Agg.

Given the uncommoness of the name Agg in India records, let alone that of James Agg, I find it hard to believe there would be two different James Aggs of the Engineering corps in the same locality at the same time.

I must apologise, in my initial post I had the birth date of Maria Agg/Faithfull as 1782, on checking my records it should have been 1786 which is very close to Kucinta's post of 6/08/2018. Hopefully that won't make to much difference to the research put in over the last few days. :-)

I'm wondering whether the Miss Margaret Agg I mentioned in an earlier post c & ped below, is actually Margaret Kezia, who claims Mary Ann Agg and Maria Faithfull nee Agg to be her sisters, as posted previously. Since the death and will details also mention the widow Edith Agg back in Britain, both the 'India' family and the England marriage in 1797 to Edith Gardner would appear to belong to the same James Agg.

"There is mention of a Mary Ann Agg, and other Aggs in the inventory following James Agg's death in 1827, but I find it hard to pick out all the names. I think there is a Miss Margaret Agg, and a Miss Mary Agg,

First name(s) James
Last name Agg
Event year 1828
Presidency Bengal
Age -
Record type Inventory
Archive reference L-AG-34-27-91
Page/folio number 462
Catalogue description Inventories & Accounts of Deceased Estates - Bengal 1780-1937
Record set British India Office Wills & Probate
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Wills & Probate

The listing of the will the previous year mentions his widow, Edith Agg."

Perhaps James was making arrangements to provide for his two remaining spinster daurs in India, Margaret [Kezia] and Mary Ann.

I apologise for making heavy weather of reading the handwriting on the probate inventories etc, I have epiretinal membranes in both eyes that can affect my vision.

The appointment date of 3 Nov 1882 for James Agg to the East India Coy that Argy mentioned above would be consistent with the blogspot stating he became an assistant to Col Henry Watson Chief Engineer of Bengal in 1777 and 4 years later joining the East India Coy Bengal Engineering Dept. Allowing for a rounding factor 1882 would be reasonable date to joining the E I Coy.

I had noticed and wondered about that female Agg death in 1807, posted by Kucinta, but hadn't found the fact that she was an Indian native.

Looks like a very strong candidate for mother of all those Agg children.

Many thanks to you all for your input. I am intrigued by this mystery of whether there were 2 James Aggs in India working for the East India Coy at the same time and the fact he left it until he was 50+ before he started a family whilst quite possible it is still unusual to leave starting a family so late in life.
Maybe James Agg did have a family in India but never married, returned to England, now with his financial success and respectability his Indian history is not included in Landed Families blogspot.com.
I should mention I found Maria Agg via Googling William Conrad Faithfull and discovering Maria Agg was his partner.and then discovered the Landed Family Blogspot and appreciated simiiar time spans & locations.

I will take some time to go through all your input to see if we can conclude they are one and same person with both sites focusing on a small part of James Aggs life..

Not quite how where Margaret Kezia Agg fits in, as her birth date is given as 1804 (unless her age at death is 10 years out and she's actually the Kezia born 1793)

First name(s) Margaret Kezia
Last name Agg
Birth year 1804
Age 34
Burial date 03 Jul 1838
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-52
Folio -
Page 118
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials

I find her will hard to read, but she mentions both Mary Ann Agg and also Maria Faithful, describing both as her 'dearest sister'.

I couldn't find the marriage of Emma McCousland, but Maria Agg and William Conrad Faithfull did have a daur named Emma:

First name(s) Emma
Last name Faithfull
Birth date 16 Oct
Baptism year 1817
Baptism date 24 Apr 1817
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Father's first name(s) William Caward
Father's last name Faithfull
Mother's first name(s) Maria
Mother's last name -
Archive reference N-1-10
Folio 363

Marriages for some of those mentioned in the will.

Maria Bean was a Faithfull:

First name(s) John Dickson Dyke
Last name Bean
Marriage year 1826
Marriage date 20 Jul 1826
Spouse's first name Maria
Spouse's last name Faithfull
Place Almora

Margaret Maundy Chester was also a Faithfull:

First name(s) Charles
Last name Chester
Marriage year 1832
Marriage date 3 Mar 1832
Spouse's first name Margaret Mundy
Spouse's last name Faithfull
Place Ludhiana
Presidency Bengal
Groom's father's first name -
Groom's father's last name -
Bride's father's first name W C
Bride's father's last name Faithfull
Presidency Bengal

Clara Lumby was the daur of W C Faithfull and presumabyy Maria Agg

First name(s) Clara L
Last name Faithful
Marriage year 1843
Marriage date 1 May 1843
Spouse's first name James R
Spouse's last name Lumley
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 33
Bride's age 19
Groom's father's first name James R
Groom's father's last name Lumley
Bride's father's first name Wm C
Bride's father's last name Faithful

Martha Fell was also a Faithfull:

irst name(s) Martha Ann
Last name Faithful
Marriage year 1825
Marriage date 26 Jun 1825
Spouse's first name Thomas Robert
Spouse's last name Fell
Place Kumaon
Presidency Bengal
Groom's father's first name -
Groom's father's last name -
Bride's father's first name -
Bride's father's last name Faithful
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference N-1-18
Folio number 273

Augusta Sulthana Hamilton was also a Faithfull and daur of W.C:

First marriage:

First name(s) Augusta S
Last name Faithful
Marriage year 1843
Marriage date 25 Mar 1843
Spouse's first name Monsey
Spouse's last name Staples
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 24
Bride's age 22
Groom's father's first name Alexander
Groom's father's last name Staples
Bride's father's first name Wm C
Bride's father's last name Faithful

Second marriage:

First name(s) Augusta Sultana
Last name Staples
Marriage year 1847
Marriage date 4 Dec 1847
Spouse's first name John James
Spouse's last name Hamilton
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 22
Bride's age 26
Groom's father's first name John James
Groom's father's last name Hamilton
Bride's father's first name W M Conrad
Bride's father's last name Faithful
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference N-1-72

and Susan Allen was also a daur of W C Faithfull:

First name(s) Susan
Last name Faithful
Marriage year 1850
Marriage date 12 Feb 1850
Spouse's first name Augustine
Spouse's last name Allen
Place Landour
Presidency Bengal
Groom's father's first name William Howton
Groom's father's last name Allen
Bride's father's first name William Conrad
Bride's father's last name Faithful

In case it's of use to Gordon, other relatives of Mary Ann Agg listed in the will are:

Maria Bean widow of the late Major John Dixon [illegible] Bean
Margaret Maundy Chester widow of the late Col Charles Chester
Emma McCousland wife of col Kennedy McCousland on the retired list
Clara Lumby wife of Capt James Robert Lumby on the retired list
Martha Fell widow of Capt Thomas Fell
Augusta [sultana?} Hamilton now deceased late wife of Capt John Farmer Hamilton.
Susan Allen now deceased late wife of Augustine Allen
RICHARD WILLIAM FAITHFULL surgeon, also deceased.

Have found a probable link between Mary Ann Agg, and Maria Agg later Faithfull

There is this Faithful-Moule marriage:

First name(s) John<<<<<<<<<<
Last name Moule<<<<<<<
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 28 Mar 1830
Spouse's first name Anna Sophia<<<<<<<
Spouse's last name Faithfull<<<<<<
Place Kurnaul
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 23
Groom's father's first name -

The register is signed by W C Faithful, lt Col. Maria Agg's husband and presumably Anna Sophia's father.

Mary Ann Agg dies a spinster in 1869, daur of Lieut Agg of the Engineers.

First name(s) Mary Anne
Last name Agg
Event year 1869
Presidency Bengal
Death year -
Place Calcutta
Record type Will & Testament
Archive reference L-AG-34-29-114
Page/folio number 112
Catalogue description Wills - Bengal 1780-1938
Record set British India Office Wills & Probate.

The will mentions bequestes to her nephews and neices or if they are deceased, their children. One of those mentioned is "Anna Sophia Moule late wife of Col John Moule now retired."

This might be a complete red herring....

First name(s) -
Last name Agg
Birth year 1766
Age 41
Burial date 08 Jan 1807
Place Calcutta
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-7
Folio -
Page 338
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Imags says Fort William garrison. Mrs Agg, a native aged 41 years.

Also this death at Fort William garrison:

First name(s) Thomas
Last name Agg
Birth year -
Age -
Burial date 29 Sep 1803
Place Calcutta
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-6
Folio -
Page 238
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials

No age or parentage given, but he is recorded as Master Thomas Agg, suggesting he was not yet adult?

I agree with you ,Kucinta.

I think it's too much of a coincidence to have two James Aggs in Calcutta and area, both working for the East India Company, at the same time.

The Ancestry tree has confused two Gloucestershire Jameses and also two Marias.

My gut feeling is that we are talking about just one James Agg, the one who died in 1827 aged 80, so likely the one baptised 1845?

Whilst in India he formed a liasion(s), possibly with a local woman that fell short of marriage and resulted in the births of at least five children, Maria c1787, Elizabeth 'natural' daughter of Lieut James Agg born 1788/9, died Jan 1789 possibly twin of Thomas Agg born Dec 1788, Mary Ann Agg born April 1790, and Kezia Agg born Nov 1793.

None of the children were initially baptised, though the latter 3 were done in a job lot in 1800 - not sure why Maria was not included in that.

After James returns to England he contracts his first 'offiical' marriage with Edith Gardner at the age of 50 or so.

Another Agg infant's death is recorded at Fort William in 1792, but no parentage is recorded:

First name(s) Robert
Last name Agg
Birth year 1792
Death date 24 Jul 1792
Death year 1792
Age 0
Place Fort William
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-4
Folio -
Page 160
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948

The James who died 1827 was aged 80 according to the record

Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1988

Name: James Agg
Age: 80
Birth Year: abt 1747
Burial Date: 22 Jan 1827
Burial Place: Prestbury, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Prestbury

I did wonder whether Kezia, Mary Ann and Thomas were all baptised in a job lot as a reaction to James deciding it would not be advisable to return to India as it might be "injurious to his health" , possibly to 'validate' them in some way?

Maria's age at death gives her a birth year of c1787, which ties in reasonably well with the births of the other childrn.

First name(s) Maria
Last name Faithful
Birth year 1787
Death date 02 Apr 1851
Death year 1851
Age 64Y 7M
Burial date 03 Apr 1851
Place Calcutta
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-79
Folio -
Page 393
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials

She is described as the relict of the late Maj General W C Faithfull.

??

Described as a Lieut Colonel on the image for this record :

First name(s) William Conrad
Last name Faithful
Birth year 1857
Death date 22 Dec 1914
Death year 1914
Age 57
Burial date 23 Dec 1914
Place Srinagar
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-401
Folio -
Page 242
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials