Military Chat

Have PM'd Karen re email address on her post

Edit - previous post been altered and email address deleted.

OMG We have a match ! Can you contact me ?
I have Private messaged you :)

Still doesn't help with your original request about deserters unfortunately, but glad it's of interest.

thanks very much you've been a great help, its very interesting.

Any chance this is Mary Elizabeth, going by Elizabeth as per the baptism MC posted? Age a little out.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

County Road, Walton on the Hill, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Elizabeth Williams Servant - Female 27 1864 Domestic Servant Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales <<<<<<<<
Sarah Meilhuish Nurse - Female 15 1876 Nurse Liverpool

On the actual image, they seem to be working in the household of a Hughes family.

Looks like George was already a widower by 1891:


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Northcote Road, Walton on the Hill, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Elizabeth Lacey Head Widow Female 62 1829 - Holywell, Flintshire, Wales
Arthur Lacey Son Single Male 18 1873 Railway Porter Liverpool, Lancashire, England
George Hancox Boarder Widower Male 37 1854 General Labourer Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Bit tentative, as it's just middle initial 'S'. Rice Lane was the address given for George Henry Hancocks' baptism though.

Actual address is 81 Rice Lane.

Fact young Joseph is a boarder, tends to support the illegitimate child theory....


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Rice Lane, Walton on the Hill, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Peter McKiernan Head Married Male 60 1831 Dock Labourer Ireland
Anna McKiernan Wife Married Female 46 1845 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth McKiernan Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Agnes McKiernan Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry McKiernan Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Robert Boarder Single Male 36 1855 Farm Labourer Domestic Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Patrick O Hare Boarder Single Male 27 1864 Dock Labourer Ireland
Joseph S Williams Boarder - Male 3 1888 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

EDIT: Maybe it's just coincidence, but at 83,85 and 87 Rice Lane, are various members of the police, including an Inspector of Police at no 83.

A good bit of sleuthing there MarieCeleste!!!

Liverpool Baptisms (Ancestry)

Name: Joseph Scholefield Williams
Birth Date: 9 Apr 1889
Baptism Date: 7 Jul 1889
Parish: Bootle, St Mary
Father's name: Joseph Scholefield Williams - just says Joseph Scholefield on image
Mother's name: Elizabeth Williams
Reference Number: 283 BOO/2/2

According to the image the parents are Joseph Scholefield, (policeman) and Elizabeth. Address 19 Wordsworth Street, Bootle.

Now, I know this says Scholefield and not Schofield and that the birth year is shown as 1889 and not 1888 as per the FreeBMD reg, but I think it's way too big a coincidence. More than possible that the birth year was mis-recorded. Possibly Elizabeth not married but Scholefield/Schofield acknowledged paternity? A very common practice on registration of illegitimate births to use fathers surname as middle name.

Worth checking out the people named on this record, even if just to eliminate.

Re: the 1892 marriage, it looks like George was the one previously married -

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: George Robert Hancox
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 37
Birth Date: 1855
Marriage Date: 27 Apr 1892
Marriage Place: St Mary Kirkdale, Walton On The Hill, Lancaster, England
Father: George Robert Hancox (Deceased)
Spouse: Mary Elizabeth Williams, age 30, father William Williams (Deceased)
FHL Film Number: 1545940
Reference ID: it178, pg81, no162

If Williams is her maiden name, you have a few possibilities:

Births Dec 1861 WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 292

Births Sep 1862 WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 333

Births Dec 1862 WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 312

Births Sep 1863 WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 285

Births Dec 1864 Williams Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 331

I posted the birth ref for Joseph Schofield Williams, might be worth getting it to see if Williams is Mary Elizabeth's maiden name, or if she were married before.

Or the 1892 marriage cert for Mary Elizabeth Willams and George Robert Hancox might be more relevant - it would normally give her father's name which might help.

Depends if you want to trace her line back or not.

thanks for the info,I think I have that photo of him from the merchant navy records. I didn't know Mary had been married before unless her son was born out of wedlock, but I cant find Mary Elizabeth Williams who matches her so maybe she was married. It gives me something to work on anyway, thanks a lot for your help.

Following the Merchant Seaman record that Kucinta posted, there is also this:

Merchant Seamen Transcrip?on
First name(s) GEORGE
Last name Vernon
Birth year 1893
Birth place Liverpool
Birth county Lancashire
Place LIVERPOOL
Discharge number 867223
Identity certificate number ­
Card type CR1
Date range 1921­1941
Series BT349

He was discharged from the merchant service 1928. Had been a ship's cook.

EDIT: He must have signed up again as there is a further card listing ships up to 1933.

Not really helping with your deserters question and you probably have it already:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census

44 Index St Liverpool North, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England

Mary E Hancox Head Married Female 48 1863 Wrexham Wales -
George H Hancox Son Single Male 18 1893 Walton Liverpool Shop Assistant <<<<<<<<<<<
William J Hancox Son Single Male 13 1898 Walton Liverpool Day School
Lily Hancox Daughter Single Female 4 1907 Walton Liverpool -
Robert Rowlands Boarder Single Male 36 1875 Liverpool Ships Painter

in 1901 living at 47 Herbert St Walton on the Hill:

Household Members:

George R Hancox 47 c1854 Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England general labourer.
Mary E Hancox wife 39 c1862 Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
George H Hancox son 7 c1894 Walton, Lancashire, England<<<<<
Alfred E Hancox son 5 c 1896 Walton, Lancashire, England
William J Hancox son 3 c1898 Walton, Lancashire, England
Joseph Schofield Williams stepson 12 c1889 Borth, Lancashire, England

The stepson Joseph Schofield Williams is presumably Mary Elizabeth's child.

Births Jun 1888 WILLIAMS Joseph Schofield W. Derby 8b 460

Marriages Jun 1892
Hancox George Robert W.Derby 8b 745
Williams Mary Elizabeth W. Derby 8b 745

This George Vernon was born Liverpool and is an assistant Baker

The birthdate of 4th Feb 1893, tallies with the birthdate of this George Henry Hancocks:

Baptism: 30 Jul 1893 St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England
George Henry Hancocks - [Child] of George Robert Hancocks & Mary Elizabeth
Born: 4 Feb 1893<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Abode: 97 Rice Lane, Walton
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. G. Leigh (Rector)
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1894, Page 372, Entry 3970
Source: LDS Film 1647561


There is a photo,let me know if you want me to send it to you by pm:

First name(s) GEORGE
Last name Vernon
Age -
Birth year 1893<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth day 4<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth month February<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth place Liverpool
Birth county Lancashire
Place LIVERPOOL
Discharge number 867223
Identity certificate number 842402
Card type CR10
Date range 1918-1921
Series BT350
Piece number -
Record set Merchant Navy Seamen

Scandanavian 2.4.19

9.5.19

143292 6.8.19

" 30.12.19

128015 23.8.19

The numbers are offical ship's numbers, Input the number on this site to identify the vessel. :

http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php

Births Mar 1893 Hancox George Henry W. Derby 8b 480

W Derby covers Walton on the Hill.

he was a baker in the merchant navy on his marriage certificate, and he wasn't shot he ended up in new York.

http://www.genguide.co.uk/source/army--courts-martial-r...

shows link to uk national archives and what they hold.

Many deserters were shot.!

Debra, what was George's occupation/rank on the marriage certificate?

hi Gwyn
he was born in Liverpool in 1893, he married in 1918. On his marriage certificate his name is George Henry Hancock Vernon, so he had deserted by then. Thanks for your reply.

When and where was he born?
Was he married when he was said to have deserted?