Military Chat

Have just realised that on his marriage to Catherine in Ireland, Nathan Briggs gives his father as Matthew Briggs, not as another Nathan, which renders that little line of pursuit of mine totally redundant... :-(

Duhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive left the posts up but edited with my mistake.

It all seemed to fit so well - parish records and census...

(hangs head in shame)

Just deleted that K, just found that Eliza wih her parents.......DOH!!!

I keep forgetting - on the India marriage Thomas's father is recorded as William Wayte.

DUH!

Mea Culpa.

I get you now.

I hadn't realised John is listed separately on the page from Maria, Eliza and Thomas, that's what confused me.

Wonder if there's any significance in the separation, and the difference in birth place, seeing as others like the Kings were grouped together?

Does it mean they're from two different Waite households?

There was a 4 yr old John Wait in Laycock workhouse in 1841, same chap???

Census 1841:

Address: Lacock Workhouse, Lacock County: Wiltshire

WAIT, John M 4 1837 Wiltshire

Looked again the 1851 census, John is definitely a Waite, he's 2nd one down, birth place Corsham

Possibly Maria's death??

Deaths Dec 1856 (>99%)
Waite Maria Chippenham 5a 35

Trying to follow up on BatMansDaughter but sadly can't find them amongst the baptism transcriptions for Kington Langley

http://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk/Items/Kington%20Langley%20-%20Baptisms%201838-1911.pdf

I think John 'Waite 'is actually John King if you look closely at the 1851 census image - he's dittoed from the various Kings above him on the page, Maria is written as Maria Waite and Eliza and Thomas dittoed from her.

So it makes sense that the latter three have the same birthplace and he doesn't share it.

Still finding this a hard brick wall to crack though! :-(

The 1851 census that I posted with 4 Waite children on it, had a good look at the original census and it shows;

John born Corsham.

Maria, Eliza and Thomas all born Kington Langley. This is in the correct area for Kucinta's Army records for Thomas as it is close to Chippenham.

EDIT: this post is Irrelevant, as I forgot that Nathan's father is listed as Matthew Briggs on his 1858 marriage to Catherine in Ireland.

------------------------------

Nathan the weaver was a widower when he married Mary Myers, so may have been much older:

This could be his death:

Forenames: Nathan
Surname: Briggs
Abode: Norwood Green
Day: 9
Month: Sep
Year: 1838
Age: 62
Relationship:
Relative Forenames:
Relative Surname:
Place: Lightcliffe
Dedication: St Matthew
County: Yorkshire West Riding
Country: England
Checked: Y
Notes:
Registry No: 1472
Record source: Halifax District Burials
Data provider: Calderdale Family History Society

and this the young Nathan his son, in census 1841:

Address: Norwood Green, Halifax, Hipperholme Cum Brighouse
County: Yorkshire

HARGREAVES, Richard M 25 1816 Yorkshire
HARGREAVES, Mary F 20 1821 Yorkshire
HARGREAVES, Daniel M 3 1838 Yorkshire
-, - M 0 (4 days) 1841 Yorkshire
BRIGGS, Mary F 45 1796 Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<
BRIGGS, Nathan M 6 1835 Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<


This might be Nathan senior's first marriage:

Name: Nathan Briggs
Marriage or Bann Date: 12 Jun 1814
Parish: Halifax, St John the Baptist
Spouse's Name: Ann Blagbrough

The image says he was Nathan Briggs of Hipperholm a weaver and she was Ann Blaughborough of Hipperholm spinster.

and the death of Ann, leaving him free to marry Mary:

Forenames: Ann<<<
Surname: Brigg<<<<<<<<<
Abode: Norwood Green<<<<<<<<
Day: 26
Month: Jun
Year: 1829
Age: 65
Relationship: W
Relative Forenames: Nathan<<<<<<<<<<<
Relative Surname:
Place: Lightcliffe
Dedication: St Matthew
County: Yorkshire West Riding
Country: England
Checked: Y
Notes:
Registry No: 890
Record source: Halifax District Burials

Wow! Thank you SO much for all of this information. I had found that Mary's Father was Nathaniel from her marriage in India, but nothing further.
You have managed to find some very interesting information and in such a short space of time. So, the trail for Thomas Wayte continues!
Regards Sara

The Dover Express also has a nice obit for Thomas Wayte, with a bit about his sons and sons in law in the army:

Headline: DEATH OF A DOVER VETERAN.

The death took place on Wednesday last week, August 2nd, at 170, Clarendon Street, of

Publication:Dover Express
Publication date:Friday 11 August 1916

Article text:"—(1) Tom Wayte, sixteen years' service, now serving in France, also served through the South African War, belonging to the R.H.A.; (2), George Wayte seventeen years' service, now serving with Mountain Battery, R.G.A., Rawal Pindi; (3) Ernest Wayte, nine"

There seem to be various snippets related to Waytes in the Dover Express over the years.

EDIT:

Duhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feeling really silly.

Just spotted that the father of Nathan Briggs on his marriage to Catherine in Ireland as posted by BMDaugher is Matthew Briggs, not another Nathan.... :-(
------------------------------------------------------

You probably have the Briggs line already, but if not, could this be Nathan's baptism?

Lightcliffe is about 3 miles east of Halifax:

Name: Nathan Briggs
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 12 Jun 1836
Christening Place: Lightcliffe, York, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Nathan Briggs
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Briggs
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I00997-4
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1542105
Reference ID: item 1-2p 182 n 1451

Same baptism with 1835 birthdate:

Name: Nathan Briggs
Birth Date: 3 Apr 1835
Parish: Lightcliffe, St Matthew
Baptism Date: 12 Jun 1836
Father's Name: Nathan Briggs
Mother's name: Mary Briggs

Father Nathan a weaver, abode Norwood Green.


A possibility for their marriage???

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Nathan Brigg
Marriage or Bann Date: 4 Nov 1832
Parish: Halifax, St John the Baptist
Spouse's Name: Mary Myers

Nathan of the parish of Hippinholm weaver w [idower]?, Mary of the parish of Bradford spin[ster?]

Hipperholme is right next to Lightcliffe.

Henry Briggs possibly working at ROYAL MILITARY ACADEMY?


Henry Briggs after he retired from the army in 1905, in the 1911 census:

Address: 137 Herbert Road Plumstead Woolwich<<<<<<<<<<
County: London

BRIGGS, Henry Head Married M 40 1871 Servant H M A Devenport<<<
BRIGGS, Ada Julia Wife Married 3 years F 37 1874 Woolwich
BRIGGS, Arthur Son M 3 1908 London

Could the M A of H M A be Military Academy????

Or am I grasping at straws here?

EDIT: Looking at the census image, the last two letters are definitely M and A. I cannot for the life of me fathom what the first letter is meant to be, whether the H it has been transcribed as, the R I would like it to be, or something else entirely! :-(

If an R, we would have a full set though.... ;-)

This marriage for David was interesting:


Name: David Briggs - clerk
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Age: 37
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Healy
Spouse Age: 32
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Mar 1904
Parish: Plumstead St James
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Nathan Briggs - deceased customs house officer
Spouse Father: Denes Healy - deceased labourer
Register Type: Parish Register

One of the witnesses was a Nathan John Briggs - so looks like he was part of the family.


Census 1911 confirms David was a messenger: The census image had Government worker and ROYAL ARSENAL added to the industry column

Address: 81 Burrage Road PlumsteadCounty: London

BRIGGS, David Head Married M 49 1862 Messenger Scotland Egh<<<<<<<<<<
BRIGGS, Margeret Wife Married 7 years F 40 1871 London Woolwick
BRIGGS, Margaret Daughter Single F 4 1907 London Woolwick
FENNEY, Augustus Boarder Single M 35 1876 Bricklayer Builders Ireland
RICHARDSON, Florence Boarder Single F 50 1861 Cook London

ANOTHER ONE AT THE ROYAL ARSENAL????

I think this chap is the William born Sandgate Kent, according to the 1881 census posted previously.

On the image it lists Royal Arsenal as the industry to which the worker is connected:

Census 1911:

Address: 44 Gildersome St Woolwich Common County: London

BRIGGS, William Head Married 14 years M 47 1864 Labourer Explosive Worker Kent Shorndiff<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Guesswork here - could this be another son of Nathan and Catherine, also in the armed forces.

Going by name and birthplace


Sub District: Woolwich Arsenal
Parish: Woolwich
Enum. District: 11
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Woolwich
County: London


BRIGGS, Nathan John Single M 30 1861 Gunner Royal Artillery
Ireland


First name(s): Nathan John
Last name: BRIGGS
Calculated year of birth: 1861
Parish of birth: St Johns
Town of birth: Clonmel
County of birth: Tipperary
Age at attestation: 14 years 9 months
Attestation date: 19 October 1875
Attestation corps: Royal Artillery
Attestation soldier number: 102
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps:
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97

N of K father Nathan John Depot R A Woolwich.

Discharged in 1896.

Not working in Woolwich Arsenal or Royal Military Academy in census 1911:

Address: 7 Parfrey Street Fulham County: London

BRIGGS, Nathan John Head Married 16 years M 50 1861 Porter Clothiers Clonmeel (on census image Tipperary Ireland s added)<<<<<<<
BRIGGS, Rose Wife Married 16 years F 43 1868 Shorncliffe Kent
BRIGGS, John Son M 12 1899 School H Smith Middsx
BRIGGS, George Son M 5 1906 School Fulham Middx

Other India born children:

First Name:Margaret
Last Name:Wayte
Date Of Baptism:18 May 1880
Date Of Birth:02 May 1880
Father's First Name:Thomas
Mother's First Name:Mary
Place:Ghorpuri
Presidency:Bombay
Father's Last Name:Wayte
Mother's Last Name:-
Archive Reference:N-3-54
Folio:98
Page:-
Catalogue Description:Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bombay, 1709-1948

Father a gunner 14/8th brigade R A

First Name:William Joseph
Last Name:Wayte
Date Of Baptism:22 Jul 1875
Date Of Birth:06 Apr 1875
Father's First Name:Thomas
Mother's First Name:Mary
Place:Toungoo
Presidency:Bengal
Father's Last Name:Wayte
Mother's Last Name:-
Archive Reference:N-1-153
Folio:56
Page:-
Catalogue Description:Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal

Father a gunner 7/5 R A

Sadly:

First Name:William Joseph
Last Name:Wayte
Date of Death:01 Sep 1876
Date Of burial:02 Sep 1876
Year Of Birth:1875
Age:1
Place:Toungoo
Presidency:Bengal
Archive Reference:N-1-157
Folio:-
Page:277
Catalogue Description:Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948

Mary Briggs looks to have been the first child of Nathan and Catherine's marriage, going by her age and the 1858 date of the marriage BatMansDaughter posted:

Census 1891

Address: 127, Clarendon Street, Hougham, Dover
County: Kent

WAYTE, Thomas Head Married M 47 1844 Bricklayers Labourer
Bath, Somersetshire
WAYTE, Mary Wife Married F 32 1859 Ireland<<<<<<<<<<
WAYTE, Mary J Daughter Single F 15 1876 Burmah, British Subject
WAYTE, Thomas H Son M 9 1882 ScholarDover, Kent
WAYTE, George Son M 7 1884 Scholar Dover, Kent
WAYTE, Lilly Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar Dover, Kent
WAYTE, Ada Daughter F 3 1888 Woolwich, Kent
WAYTE, Ernest Son M 1 1890 Dover, Kent

Below is baptism of Mary Jane Wayte from the 1891 census above:

Father a gunner R A:

First Name:Mary Jane
Last Name:Wayte
Date Of Baptism:24 Oct 1876
Date Of Birth:12 Oct 1876
Father's First Name:Thomas
Mother's First Name:Mary
Place:Toungoo
Presidency:Bengal
Father's Last Name:Wayte
Mother's Last Name:-
Archive Reference:N-1-158
Folio:67
Page:-
Catalogue Description:Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal

I checked the image for the India office record of the baptism BatMansDaughter found for Ann Briggs in 1874, and it confirms father's occupation as a Gunner C B 9 B.

On the baptism for George Briggs born in India acc to 1881 census I posted earlier the image says Nathan is a Gunner C9 R A.

First Name:George
Last Name:Briggs
Date Of Baptism:22 Jun 1871
Date Of Birth:03 Jun 1871
Father's First Name:Nathan
Mother's First Name:Caroline
Place:Kamptee
Presidency:Bengal
Father's Last Name:Briggs
Mother's Last Name:-
Archive Reference:N-1-136
Folio:39