Military Chat

Hi Kucinta, Yes it appears to be inconclusive, thanks for taking the time to look. Michael and John had another brother called Patrick born between 1895- 1897, can you see if he joined up as well please? On the Irish Census they have the name as Cremen not Cremin. Thanks

Sorry, this all seems pretty inconclusive, unless someone else can sort the wheat from the chaff.... :-(

Name: John Cremin
Document Year: 1918
Regimental Number: 300424
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers
Number of images: 16

This one seems to have had no sign up papers. No relatives mentioned, or birthplace. was aged 20 last birthday when posted for duty 20.2.16. He claimed previous service with the 1st Dublin Fusiliers Regt No 40267.

Edit: next of kin was mother. Rathankel (or Rathan Rd?) Upper Rochester Co Cork.

No parents listed for this one.

He was a town labourer on enlistment.

At one point his last known address was Harper's Lane Cork.

Name: John Cremins
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Age at enlistment: 17
Birth Parish: St Peter & Pauls
Birth County: Cork
Document Year: 1914
Regimental Number: 7236
Regiment Name: royal munster fusiliers

Hi Kucinta, His parents were called Patrick and Catherine, he was born in Cork City around 1897. Thanks.

Not finding service records for the RFA guy. No 25297.

Name: John Cremen
Birth Place: St. Ann's, Co. Cork
Residence: Cork
Death Date: 10 May 1915
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Kinsale, Co. Cork
Rank: Corporal
Regiment: Royal Munster Fusiliers
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Number: 5137
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

There are some service records for a John Cremin, not finding the one who died 1918 yet.

It might be helpful if you gave details of relatives to give us something to work on.

Am at work so can't really look now. Maybe someone else can help.

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about John Cremin
Name: John Cremin
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Age at enlistment: 22
Birth Parish: Neath Cooney
Birth County: Cork
Document Year: 1909
Regimental Number: 2995
Regiment Name: Art RGR Artillery
Number of images: 17
EDIT: Now known to be too young.

Name: John Cremin
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Passage
Birth County: Cork
Document Year: 1916
Regimental Number: 6857
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers (Transportation Branch)
Number of images: 5
EDIT: Father given as THOMAS Cremin.

Name: John Cremin
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Age at enlistment: 19
Residence: Main St, Mallden Co Cork
Document Year: 1916
Regimental Number: 7024
Regiment Name: Royal Irish Regiment
Number of images: 16
EDIT: Father recorded as CORNELIUS Cremin.

For service no etc.


CREMIN, JOHN

Rank:
Gunner
Service No:
25297
Date of Death:
23/03/1918
Regiment/Service:
Royal Field Artillery

"C" Bty. 79th Bde.
Panel Reference
Bay 1.
Memorial
ARRAS MEMORIAL
Additional Information:


Also:

Name: John Cremin
Birth Place: Mill Street, Cork<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Death Date: 23 Mar 1918
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Aberdare
Rank: Gunner
Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery
Number: 25297
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

and:

Ireland, Casualties of World War I, 1914-1918
Name: John Cremin
Regiment: Royal Field Artillery
Death Date: 23 Mar 1918
Death Place: France
Birth Place: Millstreet, Ireland

Hi Kucinta or anybody else who can help. On the CWG website theres a John Cremin who died in 1918 Royal Field Artillery, He may possibly be my great uncle, does his records (if in existance) state his parents or siblings names? please if you can look him up it would much appreciated.

Its been wonderful to learn so much about Whealty and Piggott, such a shame that Cremin files appear to have been destroyed in the fire. Thanks once again Kucinta.

The girls seem to like staying with their uncle John:

In 1901 it's Edith:

Address: Lily Villa, Lowlands Road, Harrow On The Hill County: Middlesex

WRIGHT, John W Head Married M 40 1861 Clerk Benefit Society
Southwark, London
WRIGHT, Helen G Wife Married F 33 1868 Corton, Suffolk
WRIGHT, John K Son Single M 13 1888 St Pancras, London
WRIGHT, John W Father Married M 73 1828 Retired Grocer Gravesend, Kent
WRIGHT, Mary Mother Married F 68 1833 Bernard Castle, Durham
WHEATLEY, Edith M Niece Single F 6 1895 Highbury, London<<<<

In 1911 it's Alice:

Address: Devon Villas Gerrards Cross County: Buckinghamshire

WRIGHT, John William Head Married M 50 1861 Insurance Clerk London Southwark
WRIGHT, Helen Gertrude Wife Married 19 years F 42 1869 Suffolk Corton
WRIGHT, Mary Mother In Law Widow F 78 1833 Durham Bernard Castle
WHEATLEY, Alice Margaret Niece F 14 1897 Nursemaid Domestic London Highbury<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Looks like the marriage of Albert's parents:

Name: Albert Edward Wheatley - clerk in county court
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Age: 31
Spouse Name: Alice Sarah Wright
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Aug 1891
Parish: Hornsey Rise
Borough: Islington
Father Name: George Alfred Wheatley - clerk in county court
Spouse Father Name: John William Wright - tea dealer.
Register Type: Parish Register


Albert Edward jr appears to have been a little 'premature'.

Births Mar 1892 Wheatley Albert Edward Edmonton 3a 314

By 1911 Albert Edward Wheatley sr was in the workhouse, I'm not readily finding the rest of the family.

1911 census transcription details for: Islington Workhouse, ISLINGTON WORKHOUSE


WHEATLEY, Albert Edward Inmate Married M 53 1858 Painters Labourer Surrey Barnes

This seems to be Albert's family in 1901, though the two Alices have their second initials the other way round to the military records and there's no Percy or Edith. The birthplace for Albert jr is correct though.:

1901:

Address: 65, Green Lanes, Stoke Newington County: London

WHEATLEY, Albert E Head Married M 42 1859 Tram Conductor
Barnes, Surrey
WHEATLEY, Alice S Wife Married F 33 1868 Borough S E, London
WHEATLEY, Albert E Son M 9 1892 Wood Green, Middlesex<<<<
WHEATLEY, Alice M Daughter F 4 1897 Islington, London
WHEATLEY, George A Son M 1 1900 Stoke Newington, London

So this would be the correct record on the CWGC site:

WHEATLEY, A E

Rank: Lance Corporal
Service No: 3000
Date of Death: 12/04/1918
Regiment/Service: Rifle Brigade 3rd Bn.
Grave Reference P. VII. K. 1B.
Cemetery ST. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN
Additional Information:

There are some records of his misdemeanors:

1909 London. Being in a verminous condition 8 days punishment

1911 neglect of duty (allowing gambling) severely reprimanded.

1912? March. Tipperary. Absent from duty about 9.20 pm. Reprimanded.

Later that year Sept 10th . Absent from Rifle Inspection at 6.30pm . Reprimanded.

Sept 20th , ? oore Park Gambling in the tent with a rifleman.Reverts to private rifleman 21.9.12

Have edited to reduce the duplicates, as there were two separate record sheets of his misconduct.

Another sheet lists his family again.

Father Albert Edward
Mother Alice Margaret
Sibs:
Percy John
George Alfred
Alice Sarah
Edith Margaret

13 Church Lane

He was granted some leave in England in March 1918, so hopefully he had some time with Katherine.

K M Wheatley signed an acknowledgement of receipt of Albert's "1914 Star" on 11th July 1919, and then she signed for his British War Medal and Victory medal for 'my late husband' on 21st July 1921.

A lot of the pages are duplicates or near duplicates, or hard to read, or even blank.

There is a note to send any possessions and his medals to widow Katherine margaret, but the address is hard to read. It seems to list a fountain pen and Treasury note case (broken).

On a later page Katherine's address is given as Station Rd (can't read location) Ireland. States on same page there were no children.

Another page states the widow of no 3000 L/Cpl Albert Edward Wheatley Rifle Brigade was awarded a pension of 13/9 per week in respect of herself and -- children with effect from 14.10.18

There is also mention of where to send his scroll and plaque (I guess they mean the ' dead man's penny')

Cont'd

B E F France 1914-15-16-17-18

Died of wounds 12.4.18

Next of Kin:

Wife Stanley Cottages Rowledge Farnham.

(crossed out were following details, presumably superceded by wife?)

Father Albert Edward of 13 Church Lane ????, this was also crossed out and replaced by 29 ?ilsen St Clapton.
Bro Percy John & George Alfred (with parents) Sister Alice Sarah and Edith Margaret.

Woman to whom married:

Katherine Margaret Mansfield R B Cork (there is a date, but it's very hard to read. month is 11).

Cont'd.

Attested Rifle Brigade 11/08/08.

Appted Bugler 05/09/09

extended to complete bugler 4.2.10
12 yrs with the colours

Granted P.P. l 1 @ 6d 11.12.10

Granted 1 G. C. Badge (good conduct?) 29.4.11

Appointed (hard to read) Cpl ??.5.11

Resigned appt of bugler 12.9.11

Reverts to private Rifleman 21.9.12
(misconduct)

Forfeits 1 G. C.badge 2.10.11

Restd 1 G. C. badge 21.9.13

Died of wounds
S.wd multiple
(severe)

12th Gen Hos Rouen

unpd L/cpl 12/4/18

EDIT: last line I'd put the wrong month for unpaid l/cpl and have now corrected it (my cat is 'assisting'me, which doesn't help....)