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Hi

Looking for Bartholomew M Dorrian born in 1947, Greenock.

His father was Bartholomew Monaghan. Unsure of Mother’s first name.

Both him and his mother went from Greenock to Canada in the early 50’s.

Thanks

Katrina

Looking for in what way

His birth or where he might be now ?


His birth will be on Scotland’s People

Not in anyone's GR tree, so no-one is in contact with him

Try the Canadian phone book

https://www.canada411.ca/Canada

Canada has strict privacy laws do it’s unlikely any later records would be online

No travel records show online for him

The father? Birth and death

MONAGHAN
BARTHOLOMEW
M
1921
564/1 131
Greenock East

MONAGHAN
BARTHOLOMEW
59
LEE
1980
640/ 456
Greenock

Hi

His birth year was 1947.

His family only found out about him lately. An older member of the family remembers him and that Bartholomew Monaghan ( his father) seen his son and mother off when they were going on the ship from Greenock to Canada.

I have looked up the ship journey at that time and looks like they would have went to Liverpool then onto Canada.

The elder member of the family can only remember the mother’s surname was Dorrian and they lived near the gibshill area of Greenock.

Due to Covid scotlandspeople sites are closed, so can’t go in to search to see what was recorded on the birth certificate

No online travel info on ancestry

Where did you find it ?

The travel info has not been found

The elder member of the family said she remembers Bartholomew snr going to see them off on their journey to Canada

You said,
"I have looked up the ship journey at that time and looks like they would have went to Liverpool then onto Canada."

Where did you find that, please? We can't find it.

Or perhaps you just mean that ships did go from Liverpool to Canada?

Some Dorrians did go to Canada from Liverpool in the 1950's - including a Catherine Dorrian from Greenock, born in 1930 - but no Bartholomew, at least as far as the online records go.

I think the poster is generalising about travel from UK to Canada at that time

Hi

I was just generalising about the journey through what was found online for people going to Canada from Greenock at that time.

The information I got from family members. Due to Covid Scotland’s people sites are closed, so can’t go in and look at his birth certificate for his mums name. Was just trying to see if there were other records out there that he might be listed on

Thanks for your replies

Did you try the Canadian phone book as suggested yesterday?

Did Catherine Dorrian travel alone?
Could Bartholomew have travelled under a different name?

I know a family from south of England, who travelled to Canada in 1950s.
Trying to recall just when this was, I looked at travel records. The family was there, with address correct, but the son was shown with a completely different forename to that known by us and used always by his family.

Catherine Dorrian appears to have travelled alone, per the image.

Catherine Dorrian
in the UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Catherine Dorrian
Gender: Female
Departure Date: 1 Jul 1955
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Montreal, Canada
Ship Name: Empress Of France
Shipping Line: Candian Pacific Steamships Ltd
Master: S W Keay


Of course, we don't know Bartholomew's mother's first name.

I've searched with Bartholomew and no surname, Bart* and no surname, Dorrian and no first name, Dor*an and no first name, Monaghan and no first name - no joy.

Hi all

Just to give you an update.

I got a copy of Bartholomew’s birth certificate and his mum was Catherine.

On the certificate it states ‘Adopted’. So I now know why he did not appear on the Ships list.

Now have the job of tracing him through adoption.

Thank you for all your help

Regards

Katrina

A family member could try registering with the Adoption Contact Regiister for Scotland.

https://www.acr-scotland.org/

It's a gamble, but if Bartholomew also happens (or maybe has already registered) looking for his birth family, and if he knows he was born in Scotland, they may be put in touch with each other.

More info about adoption records in Scotland:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/adoption-records

However, it's highly unlikely that any member of his family will be allowed to see the records.

"Who Can Inspect the Legal Records of an Adoption?

Adoption processes are among the most confidential records we and the courts hold. They are closed to general public access for 100 years. This means that our staff are forbidden to examine them. Each process is individually sealed and the indexes themselves are restricted. The processes may, however, be opened to access in the following circumstances:

to the adopted person if he or she is over 16 years of age. They must produce some independent proof of their identity (passport, driving licence, staff pass from place of employment, etc)
to a person authorised in writing by the adopted person. A copy of this authorisation must be given to us. By law, our staff cannot inspect a process on behalf of an adopted person
to a representative of one of the organisations that deal with adoptions in Scotland, or to an authorised social worker on the authority, in writing, of the adopted person
exceptionally, and on application to the court that originally dealt with the adoption, a person other than the adoptee may be allowed to inspect the adoption process. This is very rare and is usually only granted for reasons such as medical grounds."

An interesting situation regarding an adoption and older relatives recollection..........

I wonder if younger Bartholomew was adopted within the family.

He was not a baby when Catherine went to Canada, so I wonder at what stage he was adopted and whether he in fact stayed in UK and kept his first name.

That is a very good point. I now have to start with Catherine at the address given as 4 Chalmers St, Greenock to find if that was a resident or hospital etc. All the certificates states is her name and her occupation was ‘Home Duties’. I will also ask my cousin to do more digging within the family as going to Canada could have been just a cover up

Thanks

Katrina

On the Valuation Rolls on Scotlands People:

DORRIAN
WILLIAM
Tenant
HOUSE 4 CHALMERS STREET
GREENOCK
1940
VR003600118-

There's nothing more recent than 1940 online.

It must have been a tenement building, as there are 25 different tenants listed for 4 Chalmers Street in 1940, plus an unnamed proprietor of two houses and a shop.


William Dorrian is also at that address in the 1930 and 1935 Valuation Rolls.