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Rose
Thank you so much for your private message. I have been in touch with the person and it seems that I have the correct family for Nance/Annie.
I could not have found Information on Annie without the help that I have been given here.
Thank you all very much.
Kind regards
Aspen :-D

indeed!

that was over 5 years ago ... Phyllis herself may be deceased but certainly her daughters will know about their father's background so he can be ruled out if nothing else, but hopefully is a match with Percy and Nance

and yes, the 1924 birth I seem to have missed somehow :-)


edit, from earlier in 2010

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240325/NHS-refuses-free-care-Alzheimers-gran-lived-days-body-dead-husband.html

a terribly sad story

A little more about his wife and two of her daughters.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1332426/Heartbreaking-care-fees-dilemma.html

Looks to be the 1924 birth.

Will PM contact info. for one of the daughters.

Rose

I meant to note, the FIBIS database was down yesterday

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php

but I've checked now and there are no records for a Percy, Leslie or Annie/Nance Knight to fit.



There is no obvious marriage for Leslie F Knight in England.

but I wonder

Name: Leslie Francis Knight
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1924
Date of Registration: Aug 2006
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Hastings/R
Inferred County: East Sussex
Volume: -1
Page: -1
Register Number: A87A
District and Subdistrict: 456/1A
Entry Number: 179

electoral roll listing:

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/knight/leslie/tn40/2535259601/

possible marriage for them 1949 Richmond Yorkshire, wife shows on electoral roll only to 2006 ... there doesn't seem to be a birth for her in England (or marriage to otherwise account for her name)

followed by twin birth in Richmond ... and probably a birth in Bideford Devon ... where the Devon Percy died

I'm going to post your message sent privately, I think you only sent it privately in order to attach the photo :-)

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You have the research spot on for the Spence side. William was in the Inniskilling Fusiliers and was underage. David, the eldest was killed a few months later.

I get a feeling that Annie did live for a time in India. The letter seems to indicate that when she returned later in the summer of 1928, that she may not have lived far from her mother. It said with Annie coming home will lift her mind, referring to his mum that Annie would lift her mind.

There was no mention of Percy or children in the letter. It seems that there was only one letter written from the sister before she died. it was her first to Annie which makes me think Annie was not long in India.

------------------------

as for the uniform I am no use on those, but I'll add what you sent in case it says anything to anybody else:

I have a photo of a Percy in uniform. I have no idea if he is Percy Knight. He could have been a friend of Annie/Nance's brother Robert who was in the Durham Light Infantry.

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With such a short window of time - married in 1924, in India in 1928 - it is certainly rather infuriating not to be able to find a record of her outbound passage even.

The name Percy George Knight is also infuriatingly common! as I had not expected.

But the records of the one in the military in India might be worth considering. It's always possible that she left India and went home and he stayed there.


The Torrington Percy and the 1924 birth that Rose pointed to there is definitely worth looking at too.

that's another unexpectedly common name ... but this would seem to be his death

Name: Leslie Francis Knight
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1924
Date of Registration: Aug 2006
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Hastings/R
Inferred County: East Sussex
Volume: -1
Page: -1
Register Number: A87A
District and Subdistrict: 456/1A
Entry Number: 179


The Devon Percy ... not to be found in the 1939 register, which would fit if he was in India

I would get the Leslie birth certificate which would tell you definitely one way or another if the parents were your couple

I think that's necessary to move forward - if you're lucky it's them, if not you will not be wondering or wandering down the wrong path.

I need to look at the information you gave me.
Thanks :-D

There isn't an obvious marriage or death for this Percy who is in the 1911 census

Name: Percy George Knight
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Boarder
Occupation: school
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire
Civil Parish: Balsall Heath
County/Island: Worcestershire
Street address: 117 Woodfield Road, Sparkbrook, Birmingham
Registration district: Kings Norton

Emily Knight 36 widowed boarder
Percy George Knight 11

this would be his birth

Births Jun 1901
Knight Percy George Birmingham 6d 14


edit 13 April - I am deleting the rest of this message as the right Percy has been identified and it was not this one



someone has the 1899 Torrington Percy in their tree at this site

it could be worth firing wide and contacting anyone who might be connected with any possible Percys, to see whether they know their Percy's history, at least to rule them out definitively

it is a poser

so we know this about Annie/Nance from the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Raphoe/Raphoe_Townparks/506448/

Residents of a house 2 in Raphoe Townparks (Raphoe, Donegal)
Spence Lizzie 45 Female Wife
Spence David 14 Male Son
Spence William 12 Male Son
>> Spence Annie 9 Female Daughter
Spence Maggie 7 Female Daughter
Spence Robert 4 Male Son
Spence Samuel 2 Male Son

so born 1901 or 1902

in 1901,

Spence Alexander 40 Male Son

is also there, with his parents Alexander and Mary, but he is not Annie's father, who was William

Brother William was discharged from the military in 1916 after about 5 months for lying about his age to get in! :-) He was really 16, not 18


I even wonder whether they married in a registry office (the family was Irish Church in the census) because it was a hasty marriage, and maybe a short-lived one ...


I wonder whether they did stay permanently in India and this medal card might be for our Percy

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7384230

Reference: WO 373/75/882
Description:
Name Knight, Percy George
Rank: Conductor
Regiment: Indian Army Ordnance Corps
Theatre of Combat or Operation: Middle East (Egypt and Libya)
Award: Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire
Date of announcement in London Gazette: 08 July 1941
Date: 1941

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35209/supplement/3882

in the very bottom right corner

'To be Additional Officers of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order'
'Warrant Officer (Conductor) Percy George Knight, Indian Army Ordnance Corps'

also shown here as Temporary Lt., Indian Army Departments:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35139/page/2226/data.pdf

JoonieCloonie
I don't know where Nance and Percy lived after marriage. They married in a registry office in Londonderry. Maybe that was because Percy was in the army or the fact her father was in Scotland and would not be there to walk he down the Isle. Percy was based in Ebrington Barracks Londonderry.
Regards
Aspen

JoonieCloonie
Thank you for hour reply.
I will start with Nance. I was surprised to see Nance on the marriage cert. I did think she may have been Nancy, but only ever known here as Annie. Annie was one of seven and was born in Raphoe Co Donegal. Annie's grandmother was Nancy. For some reason she was never registered or baptised, her siblings were. The parents were William Spence and Lizzie Holmes. I don't have a birth date for her, only that she was 9 in the 1911 census. I did manage to get the school records, but the page where details were was missing. Again she was Annie.
When he sister died in 1928, I have a letter that one brother wrote to another brother, telling everything that happened. It said that Annie was in India and would be back before the end of summer. The death was April 1928.
Over the years I have tried everything to find Annie. I can trace her siblings and their descendants and they know of Annie but don't have details, other than the India connection and the husband was in the army.
I came across the marriage cert accidentally as I wondered about this name Nance Spence. It gave her age 21, which fits Annie. Then it gave William Spence as the father, which fits too. The bit for occupation leaves me less excited but still not out. William worked in Singer Sewing Machines in Glasgow. The occupation states, Machinist. Near enough but I would have preferred it saying, Machinist Man Singer Sewing as it was on his sons marriage cert a few years later. One of the witness was a Jennie Holmes and with a little digging she would be Nance/Annie's cousin.
I spent hours trying to find them on the passenger lists and nothing comes up for me on that.
I have had a look at the Percy George Knight that died 1963 Bideford. He left his money to Frederick Harris, Cheif Clerk, £1950.58s
I wondered about that, was he widowed and no children or just the wrong man.
Annie/Nance is not easy to find. First I thought that the person who filled out the cert got it wrong, but very clearly it was signed by Nance!
If I were to guess the name, I would say that she was called Nancy Elizabeth Spence.
Regards
Aspen :-)

I don't see anyone in Londonderry in the 1911 Irish census who looks like a Nance Spence and all the Nancys for example anywhere in Ireland are much too old

someone here has in their tree

Nance Spence 1890 Londonderry County Londerry Northern Ireland

could that be her?


could Nance have remarried in England? there are two marriages for the name Nance Knight both in 1942 ... but no both seem to have been born in 1921

Aspen can you tell us your connection with Percy?

is it Nance who is your family member?

it can give us an idea of what you do and don't know about him

for instance, where did Percy and Nancy live after marriage, if you know

where and when was Nance Spence born if you know? is Nance her proper name? I don't see an Irish birth, or an English death, for her

info about her, if she is the one you know about, can help find where she died, for example, and we could look for Percy's death in the same area ... if after 1969 in England it should give his exact date of birth

there seem to be a matched pair of births/deaths in England

Births Mar 1899
Knight Percy George O Torrington 5b 447
- death: Percy G Knight abt 1899 Mar 1963 Bideford Devon

Births Sep 1899
Knight Percy George Hendon 3a 196
- death: Percy G Knight abt 1900* Mar 1959 Ealing Middlesex
* died before birthday in 1959

there doesn't seem to be a couple in the 1939 register in England who fit them

No other Spence/Knight marriages in the area.

Rose

I saw that one and did wonder if he could be Percy and Nance son. The only way to be sure is to get the birth cert.

The one born in Devon had a father called Thomas and there's this birth:

Births Dec 1924
Knight Leslie F Spence Torrington 5b 611

Rose

Rambling Rose
It was a farmer.

What was his father's occupation if given on the marriage cert?

Percy was 24 when he married. That would say he was born approx 1899

Percy George Knight
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name Percy George Knight
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Middlesex
Parish Hanwell
Sub-District Hanwell
Registration District Brentford
Gender Male
Age 11
Birthplace Willesden, Middlesex
Record Type Household

only 2 born that date 1899

Percy George Knight
England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008
birth registration: 1899 Hendon, Middlesex, England

Births Mar 1899 (>99%)
Knight Percy George O Torrington 5b 447 Scan available - click to