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My name is Burt Jervis and I am a resident in a residential care home, one of my friends here asks to track down any details of his uncle or great uncle, Arthur Edwin Bland, i.e. ancestry or descendants.

I was given Edwin Arthur but it looks like being Arthur Edwin.

I found a marriage in Plymton Devon 1945 to Sylvia Horsfall b1926 which I am reasonably certain is correct. Also a death cert in Liverpool Lancashire 1979, b1923 which might fit.

Beyond these two, I have at my first attempts been singularly unsucssesful in the usual electoral rolls, births etc. Please if anybody out there can help I would be most grateful for the slightest details, Thank You.

Welcome to the Boards Burt.

Do you know about http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl ? Its sometimes easier to find BMD up to c1973 than subsciption sites.

There is one Bland birth, mother's maiden name Horsfall, listed in 1949, Battersea.
As the person is hopefully still living, please find the name yourself.

Earlier than 2002 electoral rolls are held at the local main Library for the area .

Would he have married in Devon and died in Liverpool ?

I see it was WW2 time though so maybe he was in the forces .

Does your friend have any other info on him like did he have siblings , who his parents were etc It may help to pinpoint him .

The marriage cert should name a father which would help too.

Not all parts of a tree can be put together without certificate back ups I,m afraid

GR does show one other Bland/Horsfall birth - 1973, Coventry. Although remotely possible that the child is theirs, it more likely to be a different generation. EDIT - marriage found for a different Bland/Horsfall couple

As you have found, there are no births in England or Wales for Edwin Arthur or Arthur Edwin 1900 - 1940. Might he have been born in another country, or even adopted?

If your friend agrees, it might be worth purchasing the MC which should give the names of the fathers (if known) and the couples declared ages.

not seeing a birth for Sylvia on FreeBMD ??

AH, Two replies.

Thank you both for your immediate response. I am 84 and a novice in terms of these matters. Unfortunately I find that I am incapable of understanding and using your advice, I was hoping for certain names and details to enable me to construct a family tree, this is something I can just about manage.
Hopefully ? Burt.

P.S.
I believe he married in Devon and died in Lancs.

He was in the Army, wartime.

I have given all the info I was given or dug up.

Burt.

Personal message sent to Burt giving the name and details of the possible child.
The opportunity was also given to remind Burt how to order a MC, and the details he needs.

We'd love to help you construct your family tree, but we just can't find any other records we are confident with. That's why we suggest that your friend purchases the marriage certificate.

Have you tried back tracking your friend's direct family? It might be possible to work out where Arthur/Edwin fits in to it and confirm if he is an Uncle or Great Uncle.

A great uncle is. by definition, a sibling of a grandparent

Was one of your friend's grandparents this man's sibling?

When and where was he/she born?

Having said that, the age demographic would suggest he is more likely to have been an uncle...............viz. a sibling of one of your friend's parents.......

So, again, which one?:

First Name SYLVIA
Last Name HORSFALL
Year Of Marriage 1945
Month Oct
Day 27
Place PLYMPTON ST MARY
City Or Town Plympton St Mary
Parish Congregational Church
Bride First Sylvia
Bride Last Name Horsfall
Groom First Name Arthur Edwin
Groom Last Name Bland
County Devon

..........as this was just after the end of WW2. Sylvia could easily have been a widow

The death referred to above.......................


Country England
County Lancashire
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
Birth Day 11
District LIVERPOOL
Event Quarter 1
Year 1979
First Name ARTHUR EDWIN
Gender Male
Last Name BLAND
Birth Month 6
Year Of Birth 1923
District Number -
DOR -
Entry Number -
Line Number 121
Page 0737
Volume 36

The DOB is 11/6/1923

The man whose death is posted above...................

Births Sep 1923 (>99%)
Bland Arthur E Ball Birkenhead 8a 738

Siblings.....do these names mean anything to your friend?

Births Mar 1931 (>99%)
Bland Joyce Ball Birkenhead 8a 729
Births Sep 1936 (>99%)
Bland Peter Ball Birkenhead 8a 742

The parents....probably.......and the link to Liverpool

Marriages Mar 1921 (>99%)
Ball Elsie Bland W.Derby 8b 991
Bland Arthur E Ball W.Derby 8b 991

PM acknowledged by Burt.

As your friend is not currently in a position to purchase certificates, try using the Search all trees function and contact anyone who may have his uncle or even his own parents listed on their tree.

Your friend probably has a copy of his own birth certificate, perhaps in his File for safekeeping. That will give his parent's names, including his mother's maiden name.
You ought to be able to find their marriage in the indexes, then their births etc etc.

Either we or you ought to be able to research 'sideways' to find Edwin/Arthur

Hi Folks,
Thank you all for your time and effort on this thread, I now have masses of info.

I suspect I have, Sylvia Jane Horsfall b Ceylon, married Plymton 1945, had daughter Vanessa 1949, followed by a son who may be my friend here, Waspie,

Waspie is very reluctant to reveal details, until he does it is pointless pursuing this thread. If and/or when he does I might try again

.
Again, Thank You All , Burt

well theres only the one birth listed for Bland mothers maiden name Horsfall and that is Vanessa


I thought you said your friend was looking for his uncle/ grt uncle. ????

How could he then be a sibling to Vanessa and another child of Arthur and Sylvia ?

This looks like Sylvia going out to Ceylon with her mum and dad

the address in the UK was The Lodge .Plympton

First Name S
Last Name HORSFALL
Title MISS
Age Transcribed 5
Year 1932
Departure Month 6
Departure Day 25
Ship name ORAMA
Ship Departure Port LONDON
Destination Port COLOMBO
State -
Country SRI LANKA (CEYLON)
Destination COLOMBO
Destination Place Country SRI LANKA (CEYLON)
Gender Female
Marital Status -
Occupation -
Year Of Birth 1927
Birth Month -
Birth Day -
Country Of Birth -
Last Residence Country -
UK Address -
Ship Official Number 146024
Ship Master's First Name C G
Ship Master's Surname MATHESON
Ship Master's Title -
Shipping line ORIENT
City LONDON
Ship Destination Port AUSTRALIA
Ship Destination Country AUSTRALIA
Ship Square Feet 14189
Ship Registered Tonnage 11942
Number Of Passengers 427
Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Record collection Passenger lists
Collections from Australasia, Great Britain, Ireland, United States
Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing ltd

Print this page View image
People with same last name on this voyage
First Name Last Name
E E HORSFALL dad aged 49 a tea planter
M O HORSFALL mum aged 41

They state the intend to live in Ceylon as future residence

coming back in again contact address Barclays bank Plymouth Devon

UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Miss S Horsfall
Name: Miss S Horsfall
Port of Departure: Brisbane, Australia
Arrival Date: 29 Aug 1935
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Brisbane
[Sydney]
[Melbourne]
[Adelaide]
[Colombo]
Ship Name: Orsova
Search Ship Database: View the 'Orsova' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 127278

is with her parents .father is a planter !

Her marriage record doesn't record a second Christian name

Could this be her desth
Age -
Country England
County Bedfordshire
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
Birth Day 2
District LUTON
Event Quarter 1
Year 1990
First Name SARAH
Gender Female
Last Name BLAND
Birth Month 3
Year Of Birth 1925
District Number -
DOR -
Entry Number -
Line Number -
Page 399
Volume 9


Edit wrong lady missed that this was a sarah not Sylvia

Thank you Shirley,
Excellent new info if a bit long-winded, of necessity.

Waspie gave me Arthur Bland, I had to dig the rest out of him. He gave G-uncle and who might know better his mothers second name. On the other hand I might be barking up the wrong tree.

Not yet admitted / confirmed full name.

Cheers Burt

P.S. I forgot, Sylvia is not yet dead, she,s in an old folks home somewhere.