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Many references to Delvane in British Newspapers,one including.

edited down,------- Nottingham Evening Post 1927 -----Roy Delvane and Ruth Delvane --were summonds along with others for out of hour drinking at the Barley Mow------also Milly Delvane a performer and dancer.

Looking like Roy Delvane was touring.

oops, I forgot that bit

I wonder about stage name too then ... Roy was probably a bit snappier than Louis and a continental-sounding surname always went over well :-)


there is one appearance of the name Shantall in the London Gazette (none for Delvane)

1973, David Shantall withdrew from the firm Bailey and Saunders, no location or type of business given

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/46032/supplements/8603

interesting, he appears to have married a well-known South African name
and I suspect perhaps emigrated after withdrawing from that firm

there is a Bailey and Saunders pharmacy in Highgate

yes, here he is, he was 77 in 2009 so born c 1932

http://www.haaretz.com/s-african-immigrants-form-heart-of-modi-in-project-1.274759

one Shantall on recent electoral rolls

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/shantall/sarah/dn5/3533985996/


again since anyone with that name is related and appears to be descended from Gertrude Berliner and Jude/Juda/Julius Berliner (I would suspect David son of Dove) then contacting the person with the Shantall names in their tree here at this site or anywhere else would be the best course

Thanks Joonie!

But, if Mr Delvane was their landlord I don't think they would have been recorded under that name - and Ruth was consistently recorded as Delvane from the early 1930s. Then he suddenly disappears and up pops Louis again after a disappearance of around 10 years - just a thought, but wonder if Delvane was their stage name??

Could do with someone with access to 20c newspapers to see if they would throw any light on this.

What a great job Flip :-D

Mr Delvane could have been just a landlord of course.

So it looks like Louis married
PHYLLIS SHANTALL (FORMERLY RABINOWITZ, BORN SYMONS)
after Ruth's death
since the divorce action between her and Louis ('illiquid case') was in 1963
and she was previously divorced from Abraham Lazar Rabinowitz in 1959
(which all didn't make sense to me before, but seeing Ruth's date of death it does now)

the SA archives site is a tricky one, the trick is to start here
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl
at 'All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records'
and then just search for Shantall in this case


The person with all the Shantalls in their tree seem like the contact to make.

I am pretty sure that 'Shantall' is a unique name, one chosen by this particular family in Anglicizing their name.


what a great job, Flip !

Google just came up with this link

http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=633503

A picture of your grandmother's grave stone - died Cape Town 12/3/1956, but hopefully the link will work.

Could do with a bit of feedback from James, re the info in his tree. There is a military discharge record for Louis on ancestry - no NOK named, but he enlisted in London in 1917, and gave an address of Hatfield St, Cape Town - discharged 9/10/19, and he is a ships steward going back to CT 14/7/1920. However these papers state he was born Middlesex (Parish City?).

After they went to CT in 1936, they returned 7/11/1936 giving the same address as their departure records - both Louis & Ruth were dancers. So where on earth does Roy Delvane fit into all of this??

Going back to Roy Delvane - as it looks like Ruth/Lucille were living with him - there were no ERs during WW2, but there were phone books. He was last listed at 22 Brockwell Ct, Effra Road in 1944, but nothing after this. However we find Ruth/Lucille at this address in 1945 (posted earlier) & 1946 with Louis.

Not really getting us any nearer descendants for Lucille though, but does give a trail of Ruth up to June 1955. If the SA conjugal rights case is the same Louis, then maybe she died between 1955 and 1963 and he married again.

They returned to Cape Town on the Pretoria Castle departing 16/6/1955, his occupation broker. However this record gives their dates of birth - Ruth 4/8/1900 and Louis 8/12/1900

James - if the ancestry tree is yours I think you have the wrong birth for Ruth - even the 1923 passenger list when the family returned from SA has her age as 22 but you appear to have linked to an 1893 birth? What was her age on the marriage record?

Louis Shantall
Birth Date:abt 1901
Age:54
Port of Departure:
London, England
Arrival Date:5 Jan 1955
Port of Arrival:London, England
Ports of Voyage:London[Cape Town]
[Port Elizabeth]
[Durban]
[Beira]
[Dar es Salaam]
[Zanzibar]
[Mombasa]
Ship Name: Durban Castle

Travelling with Ruth Shantall, he is now a grain & produce broker, and they are intending to stay in UK for 18 months.

There is also an incoming record for Louis in 1923 - a dancer, intended address is Dixon Road, Glasgow! Wonder if he followed Ruth?

ADDED - he was on the same ship, Kildonan Castle which arrived 22/1/1923 - he must have been travelling with the family as they also gave 24 Dixon Road, Glasgow as their intended address.

The 1946 passenger already list posted by Gins for Lucille - also travelling (but on another page) were Mr Louis and Mrs Ruth Shantall, both age 46 and both occupations I think are "Theatricals"

Mrs Shantall
Gender:Female
Age:33
Birth Date:abt 1868
Departure Date:31 Aug 1901
Port of Departure:Southampton, England
Destination Port:Cape
Ship Name:Gaika

Travelling back to Cape Town with the 3 children from the 1901 census + 1 child under 1, although it is recorded as female

James, I'm assuming the tree on ancestry is yours - you are showing Ruth's occupation as Dance Teacher & her maiden name Johnston - is this from her marriage certificate please?

If it is right, then her hooking up with Louis - a dancer - and Lucille recorded as dancer on the later passenger list is looking promising. Do you have any idea what name they were going by or where they where living when last heard from?

I wonder if Joonie is on to something - maybe Gertrude had another child - Louis was born around 1901 if the passenger list is right.

1901 English census

Isidore Berliner 62 born abroad naturalised Eng subj
Amilia Berliner 56 born liverpool
Florence Berliner 36
Cyrel Berliner 25
Emma Lucas 36
Gertrude Shantall 32 married visitor
Bertha Shantall 10 born Johannesburg
Morris Shantall 6 "
Violet Shantall 2 "

a Violet E Shantall aged 59 died in 1965 Southampton


a member of this site does have all the Shantall names in the GRO index

Jude married 1890
Samuel married 1896
Dove born 1901
Jenny born 1902

and the names from the 1901 census (Bertha Morris Violet) in their tree


possibly Gertrude surviving spouse of Julius Berliner who died 1920

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20140124220738D2921B63&DN=00000001

edit - Gertrude Berliner married Juda Shantall per a tree at Ancestry/Mundia, probably Jude/Juda altered his name to Julius

well it did help then, well done :-D

unfortunately the name Delvane is essentially unknown to English records ... also nothing at SA archives

a 1910 birth of Terence Delvane, correct from the image, is the only thing I find

edit

fmp does have three Delvanes travelling to SA in 1923
Ghys male 1921
Grabowsky female 1923
Jules 1896 male

a tad odd ...

FS shows Emile and Anna Delvane entering NY from England 1908
and a number of Delvanes in the later US censuses

I also meant to mention that SA archives has estate papers for a Peter Crichton in 1960 but no info about surviving spouse for instance (as is common)

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20140124214355275EB363&DN=00000001

Effra Road also ties in with the 1946 passenger list posted by Gins - although I can't make out the full address it defo the same person - but is it the one we're looking for??

Right address according to the 1936 shipping record, but obviously Lucille was too young to vote:

Ruth Delvane
Year:1934
County or Borough:Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency:Brixton and Kennington
Street Address:85 St. James's Road

Living with Roy Delvane, and others who appear to be unconnected.

However, I think this links Ruth Dulvane to the passenger list!

Think you may be right with the name Joonie - there's this ER for Brixton which is the area they were living according to the 1936 passenger list:

Louis Shantall
Year:1945
County or Borough:Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency:Lambeth
Street Address:22 Effra Road

Living at same address were Lucille & Ruth Delvane

Bit of a coincidence to have a Mr L, Ruth & Lucille together although unfortunately it doesn't give their qualifications for voting.

I think I would split the difference and say that name is Shantall ... there are a few in English bmd records and there are several results in South African archives

for example could this be Mr L ?

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?201401241841504194765B&DN=00000007

DESCRIPTION ILLIQUID CASES. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS.
LOUIS SHANTALL VERSUS PHYLLIS SHANTALL (FORMERLY RABINOWITZ, BORN SYMONS).
STARTING 19630000
ENDING 19630000

I don't think it helps much but just in case

Miss L Crichton
Gender:Female
Age:13
Birth Date:abt 1923
Departure Date:9 Apr 1936
Port of Departure:London, England
Destination Port:Cape Town, South Africa
Ship Name:Durham Castle
,
She is travelling with Mr L Slantall (sorry, but not sure of name), age 35 a dancer and Mrs Slantall, also 35, no occupation. The address given was 85 St James Road SW9

EDIT: ancestry has transcribed the surname as Shautall

Not sure if you have this



UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960


Name:Miss Lucille Crichton <<Occupation: Dancer

Gender:Female

Age:24

Birth Date:abt 1922

Departure Date:12 Oct 1946

Port of Departure:Southampton, England

Destination Port:Cape Town, South Africa

Ship Name:Asturias

Search Ship Database:Search the 'Asturias' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Shipping Line:Shaw Savill and Albion Company Limited

Official Number:148146

Master:Berry




UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960


Name:Lucille Miller <<<Housewife born SA

Birth Date:abt 1922

Age:31

Port of Departure:Durban, South Africa

Arrival Date:3 Jul 1953

Port of Arrival:Southampton, England

Ports of Voyage:
Durban
[Port Elizabeth] [Cape Town]

Ship Name:Edinburgh Castle

Shipping Line:Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd

Official Number:182892

A tree on Mundia shows Ruth has 7 children, some born in Kent. Which relatives have you contacted?

Rose