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My mother has confirmed that "Peter" was in fact called Derek. As soon as I mentioned it to her she remembered it to be correct.
My mother also said she thinks he was sent to live at a seaside resort. Aparently my father was removed from Cottage homes after a couple of years by his mother Irene however he ended up back in care some time later - Victoria Boys Home in Dewsbury. I am going to apply to the council for any records they have from both homes.

It could be worth getting Irene's birth certificate, just to confirm her parentage and whether the family from 1911 is hers.

"IF" it is her family (& a big IF), I think Mark Watson died in 1932, and you mentioned you thought Jacqueline went to live with her grandmother (not grandparents), so could be relevant.

Try your parents with some of Irene's other sibling's names - see if it triggers any more memories - maybe your father can remember some of his aunts & uncles? Not sure how many of them you've found (apart from the census), but all the other possibles are on freebmd - Alice, George, Mark, Harry, Ronald & Emma J. Just wish more of them had second names!

Great News - Flip found a lady called Sandra Curnin who's mother was Emma Jane Watson, a possible sibling of Irenes. After a brief telephone conversation with my wife she has confirmed she knew "aunt Renie" and vaguely remembers my father. She didn't know Jacqueline or Derek, but perhaps thats becuase once they went into care they were never een again. But this is a massive step as we now know the lead on Irene's family is the right one. Sandra was slightly overwhelmed by my call as expected so she has agreed to let me call her back on Wednesday evening when she should be over the shock by then! In the meantime she is going to speak to her sister to see if she remembers anything of Jacqueline, David or Derek. Unfortunately she has no older relatives to ask so I may not find out any further information from her.

I'm still very puzzled as to why my father didn't know his correct birthday - wouldn't he have needed his birth cirtificate to my my mother?? They are having a party this weekend to celebrate 50 years of marriage and I believe there could be some very old friends there - I'm going to see what information they can give me,
Also - isn't it strange that 2 sisters (Irene and Emma) would both name their 1st born children Jacqueline??

Peter,

That's great news, but a word of caution - get Irene's birth certificate to confirm her parentage.

However, on the possitive side, if Sandra is going to talk to her sister Jacqueline between them they may remember more about your father & his siblings. Shame there's none of the original family left though (that Sandra knows of).

You always knew this would be a long haul didn't you?

Our messages crossed, but I recently tried to helpeanother member whose father was born around the same time as your father - he never knew his birthday and although he stipulated a specific date his birth was not registered under the given name.

Until the 1980s I don't think you had to produce proof of who and when you were born - I was married in 1974 and didn't have to proove who I was

Thank goodness for that - for a moment there I wondered if they werent even married at all!!
I will order Irene's birth certificate from Ancestry tonight - it wold be foolish of me not to get evidence. I'm not convinced Sandra will be able to tell me anything of the other 2 children as by the time they were all born Jacqueline had moved down south and Derek never came home either. My guess is that the other 2 children were not spoken of again which is why my father knows very little of them. I think my main 3 goals now is to find out about Charlie Wells for sure, perhaps trace Jacqueline or her children, and find out what became of Derek (Peter).

Please do not order the cert through ancestry it will cost over £20

Use GRO

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

£9.25 including postage

Just a thought but if the death registration was correct then someone on this site has a John Townend born 1917 in her tree, there where a few matches for that name in Yorskhire in that time frame, could be worth trying to contact her and rule this one out as well.

Jax - Thank you for the tip for a cheaper Birth Certificate!! I have already ordered one from Ancestry so I know how epensive they are - you're advice is greatly appreciated.

Sheila - I will follow this up - many thanks once again.

If Jacqueline went to live with her grandmother do you suppose it likely she would have assumed their surname? She could have been known as Jacqueline Wells, or Jacqueline Calvert (maternal).

She may have been adopted by her grandparents?
I have heard of someone born in the 1940s being adopted her mothers parents because she died in childbirth and they would not allow a man to bring up his own daughter on his own even though they were married

I have ordered all of the birth certificates so hopefully if we have the correct Jacqueline and Derek they will tell us if either of them were adopted.

Can't wait to find out the outcome of all this, and it is so important for your father isn't it.
Jan

So far it "appears" the story my father (David) has about his father (Charlie Wells) dying in Singapore is untrue. However, I wonder if rather than it being a complete untruth, whether it was in fact his grandad (Mark Watson) who was in the RAF? Of course this is just another memory my father has and so far a lot of his childhood memories have been inconsistant so it may not have happened at all, to any member of his family.
Ref Jacqueline - do you think its worth looking for Jacqueline Calvert?

The grandparents were Watson, Calvert was the grandmothers maiden name

jax

I think grandfather Mark Watson died in Dewsbury - death?


Deaths Dec 1932 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watson Mark 50 Dewsbury 9b 659

If Charie didn't die overseas (probably between 1943-1947 (assuming the child in 1944 was his, and Irene's re-marriage in 1947), then either she was a bigamist or they divorced. Unfortunately National Archive divorces only appear to go up to the late 1930s and I don't know if they are available elsewhere.

I've looked at Commonwealth war dead, but can't find Charlie, and the death posted earlier in this thread looked very promising for him.

When you talk to Sandra you could try asking about her other aunts & uncles, see if she knows of any of the other cousins - some were older than her and may remember more.

I think Alice Watson married George West in 1933, and it looks like they had 3 sons between 1933 & 1938 any of which may be still alive. The most likely marriage for Ada Watson is to George Thorne in 1929, again they possibly had 3 children between 1930 and 1937 who could also still be alive. I'll PM the children's names, but it is not certain they are the right family but may jog some memories.

Hi,
You might be interested in having a look at this site :-
www.workhouses.org.uk.
If you tap into " Dewsbury--West Riding of Yorkshire" there are some interesting photos of the Work house and the Cottage Homes for children. These were taken over by the local Council after 1930. One of the children who was admitted there in the early 1950's has written her story which I'm sure will interest your father.
Good luck with your searches,
Peter

Thank you Peter.

All you helpers out there - just a little bit of coincidence for you - it was only days ago I found out that my grandfather was called Charlie - my youngest child (age11yrs) is Charlie!! My father never said a word about it when we chose the name.

Just had a very long conversation with Sandra - she remembers Jacqueline being spoken about - and also that the baby (Derek/Peter) was ill, but other than that didn't have any memories of them. Her mother and aunt "Renie" were especially close to their sister Alice so I'm going to try her children, see if I can track them down for a conversation. Sandra did however confirm that her grandmother Jane was in the area all her life therefore she couldn't have been the grandmother that took Jacqueline - it must have been the paternal grandmother. Another intersting lead perhaps (or am I clutching at straws) is that Irene's sister Ada moved to Blackpool and nobody had any contact with her. My mother told me that she believes Derek/Peter was taken to a seaside to live. I also had a chat with Sandra's older sister Jacqueline and she mentioned that her married name was Boswell - for some reason I had it as Preston,,,?? can anyone help with that,,,I'm not sure how I've got it mixed up...... I'm feeling a little deflated.... as though I'm never going to find out what happened to Jacqueline or Derek,,,,, its as though they were born - given in to care - and never seen or heard of again. :-(