General Chat

Every day it seems that someone posts a thread on here complaining about the latest example of 'political correctness gone mad'.

I find it quite irritating and short-sighted to see the whole concept of 'political correctness' labelled as bad and harmful to our society because of the worst examples. I could just as easily say that British people are law-breaking criminals and yobs and find an example every day in the tabloids of a Briton who has committed an illegal, violent or destructive act to back up my claim. It's very easy to criticise the whole movement of thought behind political correctness but isn't it basically about consideration for the feelings of other people who are different from ourselves? There are examples of it being taken too far all the time but aren't these in the minority? In recent years, legislation and social conscience has changed so that it's less acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of their gender, racial background, age, sexuality, physical ability etc and the concept of political correctness is a part of that. Isn't this a good thing? Of course it's taken to extremes at times but isn't everything? It is probably quite hard for those of us who have never been discriminated against to appreciate the changes in society for those of us who have. Part of the problem seems to be that the concept attempts to force people to alter their way of thinking and not many of us like being forced to do anything. But would it this have happened if we had been less reluctant to accept people who are different to ourselves? Just a few thoughts:)

Hi David, I agree with every word. Anything taken to extremes is a bad thing but there is nothing wrong with trying to prevent discrimination and being accepting of everyone. Unfortunately some public figures and journalists used their condemnation of PC as an excuse to vocalise their prejudices. Gwynne

I think the old adage of 'live and let live' has completely gone out of the window, and we as a society have to resort to often mind-numbingly stupid theories of 'political correctness' to re-enforce the rights of the individual. What a sad society we live in! Jacqui ps (thanks Dave, I'm now really depressed - lol)

David you are absolutely correct when you say that in recent years, legislation and social conscience has changed so that it's less acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of their gender, racial background, age, sexuality, physical ability etc and the concept of political correctness is a part of that. Isn't this a good thing? Of course it's take to extremes at times but isn't everything? However the point that many of us are now making is that a lot of these so called PC activities are just that, discriminatory. Isn't the banning of bibles in RE lessons so as not to upset mulim children discriminating against christian children? I for one think it is, and it is only a matter of time before a case comes to court.

David, As someone who has never discriminated against other people for any reason other than behaviour towards me which I find unpleasant or abhorrent, I resent very much being ordered by legislation or 'social reformers' how I should think, feel and behave. My own attitudes to people who are 'different' were shaped by my early experiences of mixing with people from other nationalities, other religions, other races and various social strata. I am quite able to make up my own mind as to whether or not I like people without needing to be told, and I think the vast majority of intelligent people in this country today are exactly the same in that respect. What most people don't like is being forced into patterns of behaviour that are unnatural to them and having their own beliefs and traditons trashed in the process. I think it's the vociferous PC brigade and their social engineering aspirations that cause most of the resentment felt towards 'different' people these days. They certainly get my back up, and even though I have no 'anti' feelings towards anyone else due to their race, age, religion, colour or sexuality, I don't see that engendering further resentment in this way from people who do hold grudges is going to improve their attitude. Gradual integration and accurate, positive information is far more likely to lead to acceptance of what has traditionally been considered 'outside the norm' than diktats from 'on high'. Furthermore, the 'white, middle-aged, middle-class' label is now used as a term of abuse in certain circles. As it probably applies to a significant proportion of Britain's population, that in itself is a form of discrimination, as being in that 'category' is largely an 'accident of birth'. CB >|< P S A good subject for a debate. I hope it doesn't turn into a slanging match. :>)

If it was just those being offended that were complaining, I'd completely agree with you. However, all the PC comments that are being put on the boards are people who aren't affected stating silly comments about discrimination when it isn't even there. I can't say I experience the same discrimination that you may have, but I am short and have small feet. As such, I struggle to find clothes to fit me. Has anyone addressed this situation? No. Why? because the majority of people are getting bigger. Even most of the Petite ranges are too big for my short legs! lol My feet are a 2 1/2. Can you buy shoes like that? Not without spending over £100 if you're over 12! I wouldn't dare say I know how real discrimination feels, but I do know what it's like to be singled out. I find a lot of the comments from the PC Brigade offensive. Would they consider my feelings before stating that I can't sing Carols on a street corner? No. I might ''offend'' someone. What about those Muslims who preach on Street corners? They're allowed because they're ''not offending anyone'' (even if they are!) I'm waffling now, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from :)

Tracy, I can sympathise with your problems finding clothes to fit from the other end of the scale. I'm tall (just over 5' 8') and have very long arms and legs, so I've always had problems finding clothes that fit me. There are many ranges that have 'Petite' sizing, but hardly any that cater for tall people, who are usually also larger as well. I despair when I walk into clothes shops at Sale time and see rack upon rack of size 10s that nobody has bought. I wonder why the manufacturers can't produce some larger, longer clothes and sell them to people like me. As far as discrimination goes, I've had my share of it from all quarters. Being left out or mocked at various times because I'm too tall, too 'posh', too common, living in the wrong place, too young, too old, working in the wrong job, working for the wrong employer, being too clever, being too dim, having a two names that could easily be rhymed with insults, and - worst of all - being bullied and ostracised for belonging to a certain religious group because my maiden name sounded a certain way - something my family have always had to deal with, thanks to ignorant, misguided people's perceptions. It's not pleasant to be pilloried for being 'odd one out', but it happens to far more people for far more reasons than the PC brigade seem to realise. If they'd turn their vigorous attentions to stamping out bullying in schools, I'd be far more supportive of them. Recent cases reported in the press have been horrific, yet still those in authority 'pussyfoot' around the situation, afraid to 'get their hands dirty' and deal with the assailants in an appropriate way. I find that disgusting. CB >|<

CB, where I used to live there was a Long Tall Sallys which caters especially for people who are tall. There also was another shop, which I forgot the name of. I keep forgetting they're not everywhere. LTS has a website. You should check it out :) I haven't yet found a shop that specifically caters for people 5 foot and under.

What I find offensive about political correctness is that it is legislation aimed at telling people how to think and what words they can and can't use. However, what I find strange is that the driving force behind it seems to come from self-appointed and officially appointed busybodies and not from the people allegedly being discriminated against. Political correctness is treating the symptoms and not the disease. The disease is the breakdown in personal moral values caused by liberal attitudes taken to the extreme, whereby certain individuals believe that they have the right to act in any way that they wish without considering the effect on other individuals or society as a whole. Margaret Thatcher once said 'There is no such thing as Society'. That has been misinterpreted to indicate that she was advocating the cult of the individual to only look after their own interests. I believe that what she was, in fact, saying, was that Society is merely the collective result of individual attitudes and that if the sum of individual attitudes and actions is rotten then Society is rotten, whereas if collective individual attitudes and are good then Society will be good.

It seems to me that all the polical correctness legislation is aimed at restricting the rights of white christians...... but it is quite possible and probable that it is white christians coming forward with the restrictive ideas....What I don't like is that sometimes now I have thoughts and feelings which if expressed are against the law

David, You make a strong argument, but my feeling is that there are a number of people with nothing better to do than to be self-appointed Nannies who are overly protective of the thoughts and feelings of others, while not really knowing much about them. These are the ones we call the PC Brigade. They have nothing to do with Equality, and very little to do with Common Sense. The sad thing is that a lot of these 'Bleeding Heart Lefty liberals' (please note liberal with a small l) are in some position or other where they can voice their crazy ideas and be listened to. I have yet to hear what Legal Standing they have, nor what they can do if their stupid suggestions are ignored. Jim, Who treats all alike.

David I cringe everytime I hear one of these stories as I know it gives the racists ammunition. I like Lynda don't believe half the stories but of the ones that do appear to be true the so called offended come forward and state that they are not offended after all. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. Maybe the PC brigade who make these decisions should be asked why they came to that conclusion and explain their actions - the media should be more pro-active in questioning the actions rather than just reporting them. Debby

Hi David :-) Well it's obvious that I would agree with you no surprise there lol. Over the course of my life I have seen great changes as my Parents & my Grandparents had seen in their lifetime, these changes are needed in our Society they are known as 'Progress'. I do not want to go back to the days when some of my family, friends & certain relatives were discriminated against openly & agressively in many parts of their lives, it was seen as the norm :-( What I have noticed in certain sections of the media is a longing to report as much as possible of these PC stories, the more outlandish the more they are reported. I also agree with all Lynda has said ;-) Why not question people you vote for if you do not like certain things, that's partially what they are there for to listen & answer their voters questions. Pat x

Gwynne That really bugs me too - when people (especially those elected to represent us all) use the term as if to dismiss an argument. Carol That's what I meant really but I didn't manage to be so succinct lol Jacqui Glad to have cheered you up love:) But I agree with you that things have moved this way because people didn't. Peter Of course it's wrong when anyone discriminates against anyone else and if a Bible is banned in a school, so should any other religious book. I haven't got children but if my niece or godchildren's religion was being treated as less than their classmates, I would complain til I was hoarse. If this sort of thing leads to a court case I think that would be a good thing - surely that would start to put a halt to the extremes that the media keeps banging on about as if they were widespread occurrences. CB I don't think you and I actually disagreeing very much are we? I also hate being told what to do and I dislike having any form of thought control imposed on me. But the legislation that has helped bring about a change in society is there to protect the weakest and most vulnerable in society and it's very neccessary. I do disagree that traditions and beliefs are being trashed - I don't see that at all but I can only speak for myself - none of mine have. I also disagree that there is any justification in people developing any anti feelings caused by the actions of the few - if people are stupid enough to harbour hatred towards a section of society based on what a minority of that section have said or done they really do need legislation! Tracy Yes - I do understand what yr saying and you're not waffling:) I imagine this is why so many people get so het up - because the examples they're reading about and posting on the boards are the extreme examples. People aren't posting threads saying isn't it good that someone who's been discriminated against in his/her job and almost brought to the brink of suicide can now take his/her employers to a tribunal. CB again:) Can I just point out that some bullying in schools takes place because of the prejudices of race, colour, sexuality, class etc so in some sense, politically correct legislation and thought control is trying to deal with it. Georgina There have been many more examples than that - I didn't see the one about carol singers but I saw the one about 'Winter Lights' - that, like a few others, turned out to be false. Had it have been true, I would probably have objected to it. Louisiana I agree with you - we need more balance but people seem to ignore what a long way we have come in the last few decades - for example the attitudes against single mothers. Brian Coming from a section of society which has a multitude of derogatory names thrown at it, I can understand why people want the use of certain words erased. Name calling doesn't bother me personally because I think it demonstrates ignorance and because some people use words without thought but without malice. The disease of prejudice can't be stamped out because there will always be unpleasant people who will judge others on their beliefs, gender, colour etc. So in that sense it can't be dealt with. What so called pc legislation & thinking does it to try and make it legally and socially unacceptable. I think that's a good thing. Heather I agree with you Heather that friction appears to come when people feel they are hard done by. The problem is that people seem to say poor us, harbour resentment and just moan. What does that achieve? Lynda This is half my problem:) The media only seems to be concerned with the extremes half of which aren't true - which probably says something worrying about those of us who read the papers and watch the tv. That's the sensible thing to do isn't it? If my council said you couldn't have a Christmas tree I'd be livid and do something about it Colin I'm a white christian and I don't feel discriminated against in the slightest:) Jim But you're talking about the extremes again aren't you? Which is sort of my point - yes there are stupid examples of when things (anything!) can be taken too far but the people who are making the hooha about the extremes are either ignorant or forgetful about how far society has developed in acceptance and tolerance of those who don't fit into the established 'norm'. Debby I'd never thought of that - for the media to actually question and inform and take a more educational and helpful role would be such a brilliant step fpr all of us. To be fair, some tv & radio programmes & papers do - it's a shame the rest don't catch up Pat Of course I knew you'd agree. I also agree with everything you've said lol

David, I have no problem with the points you have made, and yes when it first became used it was for just those reasons, but now its used in the most ridiculous ways, It has gone too far and we see it everyday, some seem to have lost the plot all together, jobs for the boys, me thinks!!:-))

Thanks for your replies David, Yes, you are right. I do tend to pick up on the more extreme cases, but that is only because I can see no purpose in them except to engender resentment. I am pleased that this Country has embraced the concept of equality for all, regardless of etc... Unfortunately at the same time the Powers that Be are dividing us financially, and I would not be surprised to hear of a backlash against this capitalism which encourages those few who can to gather as much as possible of the Wealth of the Nation and leaves a vast majority struggling to make ends meet. We have already seen a small sample of this in Birmingham recently when the unemployed Afro Caribbeans rioted against the Asians because they saw them as rich yet unwilling to employ them.

David on your last census form you did not have a christian name nor could you be English ... those things have gone..but if you don't care

Hi David, just seen this thread. Yes, you've made some really good points, and I'm one of the guilty party putting up PC threads recently. But as has been said, it's the absolutely absurd examples of PC that have been picked up on. You've got a good debate here! Keep it going folks. x

Why cant there be a happy medium ? Change or remove those things which will blatantly offend people, but lets not get silly to the stage that we offend our own people by (example) banning christian religion, and letting other religions stay and do what they like. Christians may not like other religions, but that is not considered. There is room for all religions, we don't have to parcipitate in the ones we don't wish to follow. Elaine x