General Chat

It is being reported that Scotland will ban the sale of houses if they don’t have a heat pump installed. I think I would want to install my own rather than trust the frantic installation of one to get a sale through. You wouldn’t know how dodgy the installer was.

names.I received in the post today, a leaflet from Br gas telling me to get a quote and i can get a discount for sighing up!

This is a brand new house with underfloor heating and an air source pump. All new houses built by our council have them installed so its older houses they are looking for to buy them.

Not sure how the government can stop you selling your own house??What about people here who have oil heating .

I think your typo is spot on ‘sighing’.

I read it in the Telegraph but the story seems to be all over.

As for the government not stopping you selling - it would be interesting to see if it comes about. Another nail in the coffin for the SNP perhaps.

Just had a look at this online. Might of known the Greens/SNP are behind this!!! Another good reason not to vote them in again in the general election next year.

Have they forgotten we are in a cost of living crisis and our priorities are to feed and clothe our families, its called survival. How on earth will people have 10k to change their heating system??

Besides in the winters here when the power is off, the older houses still have open fires and stoves to keep warm and cook on. What use is this new system when the power goes off? our house is very well insulated so not too cold without heating in Autumn.

But in reality, who is going to give up their gas boiler when say the unit price is say 20p against electric unit at 55p? The reason people use gas is because its so much cheaper than the electric. My dad is always saying his bills are so cheap compared to others.

oops typo...sorry. The I & O and N have worn off me keyboard along with other letters!

As far as I can tell you would have to have a safety certificate, without which the sale wouldn't be legal, so the solicitor would stop the sale!

You have to install your own heat pump, so could choose your installer, but it costs about £10,000. If you live in an older house, it has to be fully insulated first. Ours is Victorian, with 2' thick walls, which are designed to breathe. Insulating them would be very expensive, and probably make the house damp!!!

I sometimes wish I were on benefits, as they can get the whole lot paid for by the government. :-(

Didn’t Florence say there were local new builds that couldn’t be sold because there was no one to put in the heat pumps. I wonder if the Scottish govt. are going to spend time and money training the engineers.

I saw something on the TV recently where prop,e we’re having lots of problems with poorly installed heat pumps.

Thank goodness I'm in an all-electric house, therefore wouldn't be affected by this plan.

But, as usual, the headlines are panic-mongering and not entirely accurate.

Even if the proposal is passed, it would only affect houses with gas boilers - not ALL houses.
That more or less limits it to houses in towns, as rural areas don't have gas, unless LPG.


And they're not saying that people would be banned from selling their houses - only that they would have a lower EPC rating if they still had a gas boiler.

That might make the house harder to sell, but selling wouldn't be banned.

(Though the "facts" seems to depend on which newspaper you read!
Some seem to suggest that any house with too low an EPC rating, whether or not it had a gas boiler, might have to upgrade insulation, etc - which would be sensible, although expensive.)

I live in a village with no mains gas, and at a guess I would say one in three houses has LPG as the main heat source.

There's a small problem with the government wanting everyone to have a heat pump.
That 'problem' is called LAND!
I thought heat pumps - particularly ground source eat pumps - needed land, so looked it up:

'The maximum length for a loop of pipe will be 400m but depending on the size of the heat pump required you may require 2 or more ground loops. The average system will require between 600 and 1200 square metres of land. This land must be clear of trees and buildings.'

Then there's the depth:

'Borehole depth depends on the heat demand of a property and the underlying geology but is likely to be around 75-200 metres deep. You will need space inside your home for the indoor heat pump unit, which contains key components.'

I'm not saing the government is out of touch, but 'someone' doesn't realise, we don't all have a few hundred square metres of estate going 'spare'! :-S :-D :-D

As for air sourced heat pumps:

'Heat pumps run on electricity, which is three times more expensive than gas. So heat pumps are more expensive to run than gas boilers, but they aren't actually three times more expensive.
That's because heat pumps are 300% efficient – whilst gas boilers are around 94% efficient – so they use much less energy to run. So you'll only experience a small increase in running costs.'

Again, 'someone' seems totally unaware of the financial crisis!
Put one of these in your house - it 'only' costs about £10,000 - but you can get £5,000 off this - at the moment - and enjoy spending even more on heating your home!!!

....then there's this snippet of information:

'Although the government is pushing for heat pumps to become more common in the UK, it’s been estimated that 54% of UK homes aren’t suitable for them.'

Names, all the new build homes couldn't get a smart meter fitted as there were no engineers available months ago so people couldn't move in as no supply.

Local housing association are building loads of new homes just now so i think they must have engineers now because the homes are filling up with people as soon as they are ready.

Im all electric and have an air pump. There is no mains gas here as rural areas away from the town dont. They have big gas cannisters outside their properties.

Before I moved to this house, we like Joan had a oil tank and boiler outside.

Thanks Florence, I knew there was some ‘modern’ issue.

Whilst nit planning to have a heat pump I have sometimes pondered where I would have one. I have a very enclosed back garden, brick walls on 2 sides. The front and side are open as this was an open plan estate and I’m not sure I’d want a pump accessible to anyone walking past.

Why aren’t all new buildings built with integrated solar panels ?

That's interesting, Maggie. We are probably in the 54% unsuitable!

As for depth - the land used to belong to the Duke of Argyll, until feu duty was abolished, but he still owns everything below 40'. So we would presumably need his permission. Not to mention that the geology is granite!! :-( :-(

Our heat pump uses a refrigerant and uses the same technology as a fridge. Compact unit, which in our case is roof mounted. It also utilises a 'reverse' system so that it can be used for both heating and cooling.

I'm not sure which system Maggie is referring to for the land and depth totals, but that would never work anywhere in Australia given that the average block is between 500 to 1500 square metres in area.

All current units are compact although size varies according to output

I looked up 'Heat pumps UK' Allan! :-D

That was the informatiion given by UK installers.

'Compulsory half baked ideas with no research' appears to be the tag line of the current UK Government :-S

Thanks, Maggie.

Try this site :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

Interesting.
Also interesting is the amount different countries are offering as a reduction for installation.

I noticed this interesting point on how the UK is dealing with climate change etc - part of their reason for heat pumps:

'The United Kingdom government has instituted several policies intended to promote an increase in efficient energy use. These include the roll out of smart meters, the Green Deal, the CRC Energy Efficiency Scheme, the Energy Savings Opportunity Scheme[73] and Climate Change Agreements'

Then the reality:

'In tackling the energy trilemma, saving energy is the cheapest of all measures. Improving home insulation helps reduce fossil gas imports.'

Anyone remember the 'fantastic' insulation that just slid down the walls?
I had to have it removed as it was causing damp.
The Council Surveyor tried to blame my breathing (the audacity!). :-S

It's a pity governmental hot air can't heat our homes.

:-D :-D :-D :-D

I think the people deciding this have never lived in a situation where they have list all sources of power for days on end.

We were so pleased to leave our Tied house and buy our own down in the main village where there was gas. So now, in an emergency we can still have hot food - cooking by candlelight. I hated the electric cooker ad it was always blowing a fuse ( so was I ;-) ). I think we went through two cookers in the time we were there.

Last night there was a programme on electric cars, which we didn't watch, but next week is one about heat pumps, which should be interesting.

Tuesday, BBC1 at 8pm.