General Chat

We have all heard about immigrants that try to cross the English Channel in these small boats. I heard today that sadly a teenage boy was found dead on a beach. presumable fallen overboard and couldn't swim?...Im not actually sure of the full details.

However I heard just awhile ago on the radio news at 5pm, a lady who says the problem is the British Government and we should do more to help the immigrants as all they want to do is cross the Channel safely and get on with their lives!!!

Well excuse me for sounding off, but how is it our problem? These people have come through many other countries first. Secondly they do not have a right to be here, there are illegal immigrants who the French are happy to turn a blind eye and let them go in these boats as it means they are rid of them.

They should be doing more to stop them coming here.

What I dont understand is why the government cant deport them straight back to France unless they have a legit reason to be here in which case they would have travelled either by plane, ferry or train!

Yes these people must be desparate and they pay huge sums to people to take them by boat and for what? The golden promised land? There are plenty of homeless people on our streets who beg on the pavements for small change to buy themselves food and yet these people get a bed to sleep in, food vouchers etc.

Britain is full up with people. Its time to close the gates and let no more in. We have done our bit over & over. Let Belguim, Luxenburg, Portugal and other countries take them in.These immigrants are not our responsibility, we did not invite them here did we?

Am I being rather harsh or does anyone else agree with me?

I'm all for helping people but it's like someone knocking on my door saying, Ive no where to stay and you have a spare room so I can stay with you and you can feed me etc....Nope I dont think so. Obviously if it was someone I knew or family, then that would be entirely different and of course I would help them.

Florence in the hebrides

I agree with you Florence as we have enough homeless and poor families here now. I feel sorry for them but we need to draw a line on more entries to our country. Before anyone jumps down my throat I do my bit helping the homeless and no I am not racist either before anyone cares to accuse me of that.

Florence61 - If I agreed with you, we’d both be woefully wrong.

Technically, they're not illegal immigrants, they're refugees/asylum seekers, fleeing from countries at war - like many Belgians fled to the UK in WWI, and Jews in WWII, and going back further - the Irish who fled here due to the potato famine, and the Dutch and French moving here due to religious persecution.
I suppose the difference with today's refugees, compared to previous refugees is the colour of their skin.

Unfortunately, Britain is/has provided many of the weapons that are forcing these people to flee.

Why do many want to come to Britain?
Well, many, if not most, of those who want to come here speak English.
They may also have relatives already here,

Don't be fooled into thinking 'they' all want to come here.
If you scroll down this page, there's a list of the number of Syrian refugees by country.
Britain has accepted fewer then France (and many other countries)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

So, the odd boat with 10 people in, is hardly catastrophic, but the Government makes a hoo- haa about it, purely because of Brexit, but with over 40,000 people dead from covid - they can hardly say there's not enough room!

As you say, many spend a fortune trying to leave their war ravaged country - these aren't poor, uneducated people, they're teachers, doctors etc.
Unlike Priti Patel's father, who came here as an economic migrant - purely to make money.

This may make the situation easier to understand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik27He0jkg4

I also find it strange that those who have moved to another country (other than the one they were born/brought up in) appear totally unaware that they are actually immigrants! :-0

After all those that have passed away from covid the poor homeless here should have priority over any migrants. Money is in short supply now due to all the furlough scheme etc. so what we have should help those already here.

I agree, LaGooner - home grown homeless - and perhaps stop the bedroom tax - after all, it's not a tenant's fault that Government's haven't built social housing.

As for money - asylum seekers receive nothing until their request for asylum is granted.
Overall, migrants give more to the UK than they take.

Interesting fact:
The UK is the 10th largest source of migrants to the rest of the world.

The first safe country ruling is part of the Dublin Convcention which only applies to EU members. The UK is no longer a member of the EU with all manner of projects large and small sliding away inc the Bublin Convention.

The French have made it as clear as day that they are not interested in the UK's problems with cross channel refugees. That is why they cannot be instantly "sent back".

The last 20 years have pretty well ensured that the remaining EU is not much interested in helping the UK with anything - eg not even satnav or EWA.

As I write while England's Nero plays the fiddle over a few hundred boat people large factory fishing ships arre busy destroying rich Scottish fishing grounds and protected seabed. The French used to help us with this problem .....

A refugee in, say France, Greece or Spain can apply for asylum. As soon as he/she does that they no longer have the right to cross the border but do not gain any rights whatsoever and are thus condemned to live in insalubrious outdoor shacks and camps. The French are indeed racist. The majority are not interested in helping, especially the police and border force.

The French have allowed in a large number of Syrian refugees as many can speak good French/Arabic, , have skills and are seen as useful.

Thus the refugees keep on coming at least they won't be bombed, machine gunned, gassed or tortured, the girls mostly won't be raped. Many have rellies in the UK and a lot of patience.

So the UK is back on the diplomatic version of the WTO aka the UN.

As a founder member the UK is legally bound by the provisions of its charter.
Amongst these is that it is NOT illegal to be a refugee fleeing for their life. Whether a refugee falls into that category or not determines the right to remain but the actual act of entry cannot be deemed illegal a priori. Not that the Home Secretary seems aware of it. The Royal Navy seems to have a good appreciation of the law though.

Sure those simply looking for a btter life do not have a right to stay but they can only be returned to a state williing to accept them. Most are not.

The UK is not "full up" though that is a familiar plaint thet UKIP borrowed from Enoch Powell. Indeed Scotland is desperately short of young, working age people - this is one of the hot issues for the SNP.

As the weather reverts to normal in the Straits of Dover there will be fewer dangerous boat trips. The refugee problem itself will not go away until the UK brings in a system of legally managing them rather than pretending the problem can be made to go away by force majure and shouting at the French.

IMHO the best answer is to remove te reasons for the refugees in the first place. Given a chance to make a real difference at the beginning of the Syrian civil war Cameron's govt muffed it and added Libya to the butcher's bill on top. Right now the UK is aiding the Saudi government in destroing the native people of the Yeman with munitions and expertise sold by the UK. And so on.

At oje time the possession of a British passport would usually be good protection even in some of the grimmest countries. That has long gone bye the bye. One of the reasons is the never ending failureof the UK Govt to abide by international law and even its own laws.

update: MaggieW makes a lot of good points all of which I agree with.

I don't think a Corbyn or Starmer govt would make much diofference. The English are dead set on a path which is at the very best going to render them far less free and considerably poorer. I fear it will only end when like the lemmings they go over the cliff.

Up here, the local council took in 6 Syrian Families. It was a bit strange to begin with seeing the woman with their faces covered but most were very friendly to the people. They offered lots of help and support to help them integrate in the community. People went out of their way by even escorting them around the supermarket as they did not have good english and needed help asking for things and paying at the till.

Now after everything the community did for them, they complained bitterly at the lack of things to do, no big shopping centre or big parks for the children to play in. what they should have appreciated was, their lives were safe here, they were welcomed with opened arms by the community and had a clean dry place to live in. so we did our bit here but it was thrown back in our faces. If any others were sent here, I dont think the community would be quite so welcoming as the first time.
I am not a racist in any shape or form either.

But if these people are not illegal immigrants, they why wont they cross using the "normal channels" that others use. Im guessing they dont have passports or ID. Yes some have fled war with nothing and therefore are genuine refugees who need help.

But there are others that cross the channel by hiding on lorries etc.

I just sometimes think that Britain is the only country that helps. You only have to look at Dover today and see what has happened to that town.Years ago we would go for a day out shopping etc but my friends mum who still lives in Dover says hardly anyone speaks English , just full of foreigners...her words not mine!

As for a shortage of workers in scotland, there are plenty unemployed who dont want to work.They are too cosy on benefits. I think they should be made to earn their benefits by doing voluntary work. During the virus shutdown, they were crying out for people to help.

Last time I was in Glasgow's sauchiehall street, a van was seen dropping off polish women at various points evenly spaced to sit and say " money please". They were seen at the end of the day being collected and all the pots given to the person in charge. This is organised begging not genuine homeless people. I never give them money anyway, maybe a coffee or a sandwich if I thought they really were genuine.

We all probably have rellies in other countries. I have family in Australia, but that doesnt give me an automatic right to move there.

Florence in the hebrides

The situation in Sauchiehall St. sounds like modern slavery.

https://www.unseenuk.org/modern-slavery/spot-the-signs

They could actually have been forcibly brought over here.

If war broke out in the UK, and your only relatives lived in Australia, would you try to get to them?

...as for people being 'too cosy' on benefits - really?
Could you live/survive on £30- £40 a week?

Maggie jobseekers allowance is up to £58.90 under 24's and up to £74. 35 Couples get up to £116.80

Really? The amount you quoted is 'up to' - that's the maximum, many receive less.
Oh - and it's Universal Credit, now.
Not exactly a fortune is it?
Out of that, you have to pay utility bills, internet/mobile phone payments, insurance, water etc

Then people (especially those who were weekly paid) have to pay back the loan most have to get to last them the 5 weeks before they get UC.
...and if you're 'deemed' to have too many rooms (not necessarily bedrooms), that's 17% or 25% of your rent you have to find.

Oh yes, and if you get a tax rebate (which is money you shouldn't have paid to the Government), they'll take 63p in every £ off you.
The same with any holiday pay you receive.

But yes, they must be living the life of Riley!

I didn't say they did but many can afford i phones, booze and fags.

You NEED the internet to sign on, now - hence the Government is going to provide a small quantity of the ever-growing (and soon to increase due to evictions) homeless with a smartphone.

It's like denouncing an unemployed person for having a huge TV - a TV that they probably bought when they were working.

Smoking is an addiction, and possibly the only grasp on sanity.
Much better than a heroin addiction.

To be honest, if you found yourself on UC tomorrow, would you be able to cope after 3 months - when you've eaten all the 'spare' stuff in your cupboards, freezer etc?

Very few people deliberately make themselves unemployed, but, because of a few, they're described as 'feckless'.
No point in saying 'get a job' now, as unemployment is rising daily - or, to be more 'populist' -
The number of 'feckless' people who can't be bothered to get a non-existent job is rising. How dare they!

Just like to add, the increase in foodbanks isn't because people are having a 'good time' on the £££££'s they receive in Universal Credit!!

This takes us back to the OP . How can we support illegal immigrants when we can't support our own people.

:-D :-D :-D

Well, as most of those who have left Syria are the educated, we need nurses and doctors!

Did you see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik27He0jkg4

This country would have a lot more resources if everyone paid their fair share of tax, and didn't put it in offshore accounts.
Also firms like Amazon, Starbucks, boots, Waterstones, Google etc etc paid the proper tax in this country, we'd have £billions more money!!

Maggie we refuse to use Amazon,Starbucks etc for that very reason. Google sometimes for research mainly.
I have no objection to immigrants who come here qualified to work but how many are ? Answer very few

How do you know they're not qualified to work here?
This is from 2 years ago:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/syria-refugees-crisis-uk-immigration-work-studying-research-latest-updates-a8299256.html

This is an interesting point, from: Migration impact on labour market: the UK as a study case
"Immigration affects the labour supply, as it increases the pool of workers in certain sectors of the economy. Besides, immigration is likely to increase the demand for labour, as migrants expand consumer demand for certain goods and services. That same movement increases labor market competition but also allows the economy to fill labor demand shortages by drawing on skills and talent not available in the native workforce"

We won't know will we until they are vetted properly and enter our country legally. I can't see that happening unless they come in through the correct way not in the way they do now.

The poor lad who died (who couldn't swim) apparently got a small dinghy with his friend and used two shovels as oars. They were teenagers, desperate to come here. When they capsized he lost his life, he must have been terrified. He was someone's son, grandson, brother.

Lizx