General Chat

Here is the source code for the famous Isle of Wight app. iOS version.
There are a lot of bugs of which the most annoying is running the battery flat - one reason why the Google/Apple approach avoids having a central database.

https://github.com/nhsx/COVID-19-app-iOS-BETA

Why would anyone who doesn't live on the IoW want the source code - especially if, as you claim, there are lots of bugs?
Also, I don't really think I could trust a site with the name 'Github' :-D :-D

would not the actual running of Bluetooth run the battery down? if it is constantly "on the lookout "for another contact?

The Isle of Wight is being used for testing before the launch of the app nationwide approx end of May. There won't be a version for each admin area!

Github has been around for donkey's years , it is a public domain code depository.

One of the criticisms of the NHSX app use of a central database was that it woud overuse bluetoothLE so that the phone battery runs flat. Exactly that has happened so Bob is right on that one.

Due to this and other problems both technical and cultural the NHS is now seriously considering the Apple/Google app as used by Germany and pretty well everybody else except France. France will prob end up with the Google app.

'Google and Apple announced ajoint initiative for privacy-preserving contact tracing based on BluetoothLE technology The system is intended to allow governments to create official privacy-preserving coronavirus tracking apps. '
As the G/A app does not report to central in real time it does not run the battery flat.

There are a lot of people in the IOW with smart phones! NHSX is v pleased to see that there was a high level of takeup.

With an epidemic or pandemic it is pointless to carry out mass testing without follow up. Given that the UK is not in a position to follow up using only trad shoe leather it has little option but to use an app. which , it is hoped, will highlight "hotspots". These would be temporarily locked down hard until transmission rate was down to zero. That of course has not been mentioned at the briefings.

The timetable is, to say the least of it, very tight.

Strangely, most of the country knows the IoW is being used as for testing the app.
But WHY would anyone not living there want/be interested in, the source code or app?

The Australian Federal Government has launched a similar app, but won't release the source code despite assurances that it would.

The app has now been downloaded by over 4 million people. At one stage the Government were going to make it mandatory to download the app but very hastily backtracked on that idea following a huge outcry.

Despite having been downloaded by so many, the app has still not been 'switched on' owing to various problems:-S :-S



https://tinyurl.com/y9u252xd

The Isle of Wight s not getting an IOW special version it is getting a release candidate for the whole country. Thus anybody reading the source code can see what is in store for everybody else from Ullapool to the Minquiers. Whether NHSX go with what they've got ( given the urgency ) or the Apple/Google app ( also public domain) much of the functionality is the same.

In any case the app won't work with Huawei smartphones , ancient phones inc old smart phones and or course classic Nokias and such. Which means non users won't be aware of the hotspot standing next to them in the Q at Tesco or sharing the bus.

Fear is the ultimate motivator.

I'm aware the IoW is trialling it for the rest of the country - I think I've pointed that out before - but the reason they're trialling it is to work out any problems.
As this article points out:

https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

This is why I can't see why anyone would want to download it yet, unless they're on the IoW!

You also say there's been a big take up - and then mention it can't be downloaded on lots of phones (ie over 2 years old, and of the wrong make)

I presume you know that 60% of the IOW needs to download the app for it to be successful don't you, and that the app is currently only available on the Isle of Wight, but will be rolled out nationwide in the next 2-3 weeks?

If every other Tom, Dick or Harry decides to download it, using an IOW postcode, it will skew the figures of those on the island who have actually downloaded it.
So, well done.

well anybody reading the (not v complicated) source code can see what the apps does and places where it might have problems. That is the whole point of open source anybody can read it, evaluate it and offer contributions depending on how the project has been set up.

The amount of power available to a mobie phone ( old classics or new stuff) is tiny such that power has to be asked for (by an app) and granted parsimoniously. Over the last ten years power mgt has improved hugely but the rule remains true. Thus while an app using BluetoothLE (low energy) might work ok as is when it is scaled up overuse of Bluetooth can result in a flat battery. The client/server model asked for by Vallence was pretty well certain to have this problem as well as issues of confidentiality.

Apart from Huawei both versions of the app should run on phones back to Android 7 so long as they have been updated regularly. The latest version is 10. That goes back about 4 years which is pretty well end of life for most devices.
Due to changes in system architectures and security going back much further is not practicable. Much the same is true of iOS which is easier to proggram.

Given that there is no realistic prospect of a vaccine for a year or more the only way forwards is containment followed by test and track. The UK missed the bus on containment (aka quarantine) but has just about managed to "flatten the curve". This has bought a few weeks to get track and test properly under way but the window of opportunity won't be open for very long. One way or the other Hancock will have to get this to work. The test results will be needed < 24 hrs which precludes sending them to the USA.

"Now, if I can't get away nohow, and they tip me the black spot, mind you, it's my old sea-chest they're after; you get on a horse—you can, can't you? Well, then, you get on a horse, and go to-well, yes, I will!—to that eternal Doctor swab, and tell him to pipe all hands—magistrates and sich—and he'll lay'em aboard at the 'Admiral Benbow'—all old Flint's crew, man and boy, all on 'em that's left. I was first mate, I was, old Flint's first mate, and I'm the on'y one as knows the place. He gave it me at Savannah, when he lay a-dying, like as if I was to now, you see. "
R L Stevenson

Now that we can all read and understand ( :-S) the source code - we can also hack it!

So true, namelessone.

RTR - Apart from repeating yourself ad nauseam (adding quotes doesn't relieve the boredom), all you've shown is how bored you must be and how you don't give a sh*t about anything - like stats needed for this trial etc as long as you can show of how clever you believe yourself to be.
I'm amazed you haven't in part attributed your self-idolising 'genius' down to a 'rellie' (ie 3rd cousin twice removed's aunts hairdresser) who was Alan Turing!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/10/only-50-of-britons-would-download-nhs-tracing-app-poll

the hotspot standing next to them in the Q at Tesco or sharing the bus.

bit late then,,,,,,,,,,when they have zig-zaged round everybody...…

if they are a hotspot they shouldn't be in Tescos or any other place.....

Yes, I read the article yesterday, RTR.
And of those 50% who would be willing to download, many won't have the 'right' phone or the capacity.
I believe I said ages ago, when the app was first touted, that many won't download, partly because of this Government's lack of clarity about what will happen to details gleaned from peoples phones.
I'm not sure exactly what you referred I was, but it was on the lines of a Luddite.

I would just like to say that I have heard of bluetooth but don't know what it is other than a Norse warrior or something, I don't know what a source code is or, indeed, an app and ,frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

I'm with you Sharron. The only mobile phone I have is my ancient old Nokia which I only use for emergencies or to ring home for a lift back from the shops (in normal times) and I don't intend to start learning about apps and such as I won't be buying a smart phone.

I think if everyone apart from NHS staff stayed at home for the next year and stayed away from others the virus would quickly get down to manageable levels and normal life would resume much quicker that I think it is going to the way things are going.

I think the government needs to give precise details of exactly where we can go, if we can drive and what we should do if they are going to drop the "stay home" message.

Kath. x

Some people would consider me a moronic Neanderthal because I don’t have a smart phone.
I have a mobile. I have no wish to out and about (eventually) glued to my phone in places where I should be concentrating on what is going on around me. Especially at the supermarket till!
Almost nothing is so important that it can’t wait until I get home.

So I won’t be downloaded the app. If the govt gave me a fully paid up phone I might consider it.

I won't be downloading it because I don't know how to.

There's going to be no easy way out of this dilemma, not only because of the reasons given above but also because, apparently, some of our tests have been sent to the USA for processing, adding further delays. Seemingly, the capacity for testing in Milton Keynes is not available or has gone awry and I ask myself whether our own laboratories throughout the UK are being used.

Perhaps a combined effort to testing is necessary.

There are two Northern England companies that seem to have produced a small gadget that can give a result in 90 minutes or so. Have they been approached by government, I wonder, because 90 minutes is one of the quickest diagnostic periods for CV19 that I have read about?

This gadget is used for a variety of diagnoses, some requiring only 30 minutes.

Perhaps we should also make use of our broadcasting system at designated times every day so people know when they can get updates. Local news channels saying something along the lines of 'Were you in the vicinity of ... so-and-so street ... shop ... at 10 am today? If so, contact ..... '. (And for goodness sake, a local number rather than one a hundred or more miles away).

CV19 broadcasts within 24 hours of a diagnosis, in addition to the phone app would give a more rapid response than we seem to have at present.

Does anyone else think we should not rely on a phone app that may reach only 50% of the population, if that, or does anyone have further ideas?

Kathleen - I'm envious! My Nokia gave up about 2 years ago.
Apparently they can only be charged so many times :-(

Namelessone - I bought a £5 mobile, which does me fine. However, my sister bought me a smartphone for Christmas - so we can have family chats with all the (extended) family.
However, my sister bought it, and is paying for it for the next 3 years - so even if I DID download the app, it would be to the wrong person :-D
Also, when I go out, I take my £5 number with me.

Sharron, even those on the Isle of Wight are having trouble downloading it!
Comments from The Island Echo:

"Cannot load it and there seem to be a lot of similar named named sites asking for personal details and money. Beware."

"Every time I try to download the App it says App not found"

This one is for RTR:

"30,000 is the overall figure – the app can be downloaded by anyone who is not living on the isle of wight – the app providers are asking that non island residents do not upload any data, as it is solely for the island at this stage.

So, the reality is – a large number of this 30,000 may not even be living on the island."