General Chat

Dermot ........

that cruise ship is a conundrum that every nation has been trying to decide how to solve.

People are being confirmed as having the virus every day, with the number climbing every day. So, every one on board that ship has to be considered a danger until a clear 14 days have passed without anyone one else coming down.

Every day that even one person is confirmed sick adds 1 extra day to the confinement on the ship. Of course, that also means that the danger of catching it increases, as crew members have to be able to move around the ship.

The US finally came to a decision, got everything together, and their citizens who were still apparently healthy were on a plane yesterday, but will have to go into quarantine for 14 days in the US, probably on a military base.

The Canadians have finally got a plane that will bring apparently healthy Canadians home in the next couple of days. The plane will stop in Vancouver and any passengers that have developed symptoms while in flight will be off-loaded and BC has to find a place to put them. The plane will then take off again and land at a military base in Ontario, where they will be checked again, and then go into quarantine for 14 days on that base. That's the second military base in Canada that will contain quarantined people brought back from overseas.

I think it's wrong to blame a government for being slow or slack ............. they have to arrange planes, methods of transferring people from place to airport to plane to home country, and then what to do with them when they get home, ie where to put them.

It's strange (possibly, possibly not!) that I've heard and read of more complaints from the UK about places being used to quarantine people brought back home, and many more nasty complaints and things being said by the people in quarantine at that hospital in the Wirral, than has seemed to be the case here or even in the US.

The Canadians in quarantine say they're longing to get home but that they're being well-treated, and the people in the nearby town say they're not worried, the base is safe, and, perhaps more importantly, they trust the safeguards that have been put in place.

Sylvia the worries/complaints from people here versus those in the states could be because here they are quarantined in accommodation belonging to a hospital and people for some reason see it as being near to people whereas in US they are in military accommodation which people see as secure. I have not actually seen any reports from people in quarantine. In fact I have seen much praise for the way they were looked after.

My worry with bringing people home is that there is a long incubation period when people seem healthy but are actually liable to be infectious. However if they go into secure quarantine I can’t see what the problem is. Maybe with UK being so much smaller than US there are more places US can utilise for quarantine.

A lot of grumbling ( and rumour of course) up on the Wirral according to friend who lives near Arrowe Park. Some scare in a supermarket which was cleared by police, and was rumoured to be one of the returnees who'd walked out of quarantine ( not so as far as I know) and other reports that hospital staff were going from the quarantine area back to the wards.

From what I heard on tv myself most people were happy enough to be in quarantine there ( beats China hands down!), aside from some idiot who had too much to drink and said he was leaving.

Just received an email from the BBC.




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51449675?xtor=ES-211-[30029_PANUK_NLT_07_ENG_ACT_0-3Months_RoyalHistory]-20200217-[bbcnews_coronavrusthevirusthatthreatenseverything_factualhealth]


I have read it and it's a very interesting article.

Ann .............

we hear very little about what people think about quarantine in the US, being in it or living close to it. There might be a security screen around it all!

The military bases in Canada are close to towns. The current facilities in Trenton are two buildings on the base, both motels built for use by troops on the base as well as visitors. The first to be emptied of those living there was a new-ish building, typical motel with bathroom plus added cooking facilities like a microwave and small fridge.

The second lot of evacuees from Wuhan were put in an older motel, again emptied of guests who'd been living there, but less "plushier" than the new one. However facilities were added ............. WiFi, cooking facilities, fridge etc.

In both cases, food is prepared on the base away from the motels, delivered to the rooms, all necessary supplies are provided from diapers and infant formula to sanitary supplies, toilet paper, snacks, etc. The evacuees were greeted with new clothes donated by companies that they take their pick from. They are allowed outside for an hour or so a couple of times a day .............. darn cold there!

I've seen reports in our media (not online) regarding the hospital on the Wirral .... which actually seems to be Nurses accommodation which they had to leave in a hurry ........ that a number of the evacuees were unhappy about what they were getting, including some, possibly including the drunk man mentioned by Rose, demanding that the security guards fetch them alcohol, that it was horrible, etc.

I don't know whether that is true, or what is becoming known in many areas as British griping and terrible behaviour.

I only know that I've been asked a couple of times "as a Brit, what do you think of the reports from the Wirral"!!!

Think of that as you will.

(My standard reply, as to anything asked me about the UK including Brexit and Boris Johnson, is "I have no idea, I no longer live there.")

Sue .......

that is an interesting article, but I have to say that, apart from the tribute to the doctor on the river bank, I learnt nothing new. Everything else there has been reported at some point in our media.

Are we in Canada being kept better informed than the UK?


I have to say that we went into the central downtown core last night to have dinner with a friend at one of the hotels.

I didn't see anyone wearing a mask. The hotel dining room wasn't very full, but it was early, a Sunday in winter and not much going on.

Life on the streets as we saw it from the cabs was all as normal.

We get daily updates from the BC Provincial Health Officer and the provincial Health Minister, as we have 5 confirmed cases, all in quarantine at home and one of them has already recovered. That is in addition to daily updates from the Federal Health Officer and federal Health Minister, plus all updates from Geneva.

All these are on the TV news and in other media outlets.

The general word is that everything is under control, all quarantine regulations and checks are working, no reason at this stage to panic. It seems that we learnt a lot from precautions that were gradually developed during the SARS epidemic back in 2003.

We have to believe that!

On a lighter note, I had a phone call from my daughter yesterday advising that she had ordered something on line and it was to be delivered to our address.

This is a common practice as both she and her partner work during the day, and if the parcel is left at the local post office it is not really suitable to collect due to the restricted opening times.

So after some small talk she said, 'Dad, this parcel is coming from China'

My initial reaction was, 'Goody, a case of Corona (beer)'

But she was genuinely worried about whether we would receive it or not.

I explained that as I had long retired from Environment Health duties, I would be happy to handle said parcel.

I'm not sure about the shirts inside, though; the word fomites springs to mind :-D :-D :-D

But what about the 14 people (reported on BBC tonight that have been tested by US and have the virus,

And they were on the planes going to the States.

Oh and surely they were tested before leaving the shop. Maybe our government is not so silly. Afte all. We can’t understand how if they are all in quarantine on the ship is the virus spreading still. From where are they catching it?

The air-conditioning system

It's the other passengers onboard walking the decks that could be passing it on.

But we all don't know that the tests are getting done properly.

Can't wonder that the British want to wait.

Ship's staff, they have to move between those who are sick and those who aren't, even with the best of precautions, they will be handling plates , linens etc.

Sue ..............

there's up to a 14 day incubation period, and it now seems that you are or can be infectious before symptoms appear.

So ........... my guess is those people were infected before they left Wuhan, but didn't show any symptoms at any of the check points they went through to get to the airport or at the airport, or else they would not have been allowed to proceed to the next step in the process. Nor did they show symptoms at any of the testings on the plane, or on the ground after landing at the air base.. Simply because they were in the incubation period and not showing symptoms

Isn't there one of the childhood illnesses where a child is/was infectious before showing symptoms?? Chicken pox, measles???



Ann ...... again the probable answer to your question is simple.

Crew members are continually moving around the ship, cleaning, and delivering food etc to the cabins. Several of them have come down with the virus. They don't apparently actually enter the cabins, just hand stuff in at the door. But there might be hand contact, contact with the edge of the tray, container, etc

But also it seems that the virus is able to live for longer on door handles, rails etc etc, and as people are allowed out of their cabins to get fresh air, a simple touch on a railing at the stairwell or in the elevator could be enough

Plus .............. how efficient is the air conditioning system??


The friend we had dinner with last night has been on over 40 cruises, and he was saying that he is always amazed at how fast infections spread on board a ship.

First couple of days ........ no sign of anything

Day 3 ...... a few dry coughs

Day 4 ........ half the audience at a lecture coughing


In fact, a ship is very possibly the very last place to serve as quarantine if the people IN quarantine expect to be unaffected, just because of the difficulty of really getting everything as clean as needed, and the close quarters. It was reported here that people were actually putting threads around the dividers between their balconies so they could talk at close quarters. That was something that was against instructions.

It is a good place to isolate possibly infected people from those on shore.

On the other hand ................... what are you going to do with 3,000 (or even possibly 6,000) passengers who have been exposed to a very contagious disease? How do you get them all off the ship, through a port city, an airport? Where are the planes to get them home? What happens in the home country???

Some reports have suggested that the incubation period may be longer than fourteen days

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/chinese-officials-have-warned-the-coronavirus-incubation-period-could-reach-24-days/news-story/384e73b743ec81d8aed657a2594a746e

Allan,
Thats an interesting article .

24 days is a long time but better safe than sorry.

And the English couple who are complaining about the British government not sending a plane out should think twice now as they both proved positive for the virus and have been taken off the ship and put in a hospital in Japan.

Just goes to show some complaining doesn't get you anywhere.

It is a long time, I agree, Sue, but the word 'quarantine' is derived from forty days, which was the period that ships could not discharge passengers during the era of the Plague.

I'm not sure whether people complained back then, but social media these days means that people can vent their frustrations to all and sundry :-D

Worrying about the clusters in places like Italy that so far can't be explained for source...I think the 14 days is too short.

Some people may also be carriers.

Exactly Allan and not know they have it very worrying.

Reminds me of the stories "Typhoid Mary"? :-0