General Chat

can't get hand sanitizers where I live, been on lookout for my brother who is undergoing chemo at moment so his immune system is low. He can't get it either, told him to get some dettol surface wipes as he wants something in his car for after shopping etc. He is also 72yrs old so in the at risk group. Dettol wipes (shush, should'nt say this as will start panic buying) but it says it kills corona virus on the back, better for him to wipe his hands on them than to have nothing, will keep trying to get him some sanitizer as well..

Some stores have begun to ration certain food items even. :-0

Well he was lucky to get the wipes they had sold out here. Have you tried on Amazon to see if they have had more in. They do say though that soap and water is as good if you are near water etc i.e. not out in the shops.

No have'nt tried anywhere online, I managed to get some Dettol wipes for him this morning, taking him to chemo next Monday, he is going to try & get some himself as well. People who are panic buying all the sanitizer don't think of people like him & others, about time shops should ration it.

Thorough washing with soap and hot water is much better than sanitizing wipes or sprays .......

........ the sanitizers should only be used when you cannot get near soap and water, eg while shopping.

All our information from our Medical Officers of Health is that sanitizing wipes and solutions are NOT efficient and will not give much protection from viruses.

We use the wipes for keyboards, phones, remote controls and the like and have done for years at home and work before we retired. While door handles can be washed, electronic items can't.

Brother wants to keep it in car when he has been shopping untill he gets home.

Hilary, perhaps the hospital pharmacy will be able to help?

well, if you are worried Rollo .............. buy some sanitizer wipes and wipe your phone down before and after every time you use it.

If you want to scare yourself about epidemics and pandemics ............. read the books by Daniel Kalla. I think there are currently about 9, with the first one published in 2005

By the look of tv showing panic buying toilet rolls, we ought to save our newspapers, cut it up into squares, thread a string through & hang it up on a nail. Bet loads of us remember it from childhood, be a shock to the younger ones though. Have to smile at the thought. :-)

Once a week for phone, keyboard and remote cleaning is what I got used to at work and it made sense to me. If I were still working I'd be a bit more fastidious at the moment but I think anyone would. At home, not so much as there are usually only two of us using things.

Did anyone read about the newspaper that was being sold with a few clean, empty pages to it? I don't think it was a joke.

I can understand why people are more careful if the virus has been discovered in someone near or working with them and certainly if people's immune systems have been compromised for any reason.

Hilary, I hope things soon improve for your brother as he goes through treatment.

'If I were a bird
I would sing myself hoarse
About this land torn by storm
This raging river that surges around our anger
This furious wind that roars without end
And about the ever-gentle dawn that rises through the trees
Then die
Even my feathers to rot in the earth
Why are there always tears in my eyes?
I love this land too deeply'

Ai Qing

We wipe our cell phones down every time we come home, even before this virus. That said I kept wondering why my eldest kept getting colds then discovered he wasn't wiping his phone down!
Middle child has just got onto the subway train...then changed carriage along with everyone else...not because someone was coughing but because a strange person was walking up and down arguing with themselves and smelt to high heaven...sad for that person I know but why have an hour with that...there are many things to "worry" about in life it just depends on where you are at that moment in time.

I am sure that I either read about or saw on one of the news channel that someone in the North East had come up with similar, Rollo, but our government obviously thought better about using/promoting it.

I have no idea why. Perhaps tests proved it was not effective enough - it's anyone's guess as the government has made no mention of it.

JoyLouise, re your comment regarding the newspaper. This happened in the NT; here is a link

https://tinyurl.com/tdllgbf

The Irish Association of Funeral Directors (IAFD) has recommended that funeral services for any one who dies due to coronavirus should be postponed and the deceased should be immediately cremated or buried. 

The IAFD has also advised that transport for families of the deceased should not be provided and that funeral instructions should only be given to undertakers over the phone. 

 Keith Massey, of Rom Massey & Son Funeral Directors, said it is not clear how long the virus remains in the body after the person has died. 

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Sean O'Rourke, he said the chance of cross-infection with undertaker staff is quite high. 

"The thinking is to cut out the contact between the deceased and the living", he said. "If there's any cross infection, it would be when the deceased is collected". 

He said the IAFD recommendations would have been discussed with various bodies - such as the Coroner's Office and Department of Health - and that the instructions are "overly cautious". 

 "The problem is that there is often air trapped in the lungs when someone passes away", he said.

"When you move somebody, that air will come out. They're not too certain how long the virus will stay in the lungs, and that's what they're concerned with. They have been looking at this for the last two or three weeks", he said. 

Mr Massey said that because we have been trying to prevent coronavirus among the living, we should continue to do so among the dead. 

I never gave a thought to that aspect, Dermot. :-0

Will the funeral directors need to wear hazard suits until the body is dealt with and fastened in the coffin, do you think?

It's a bit of a dilemma for them as they'll not want to upset the deceased's family but need to stay safe themselves.

I can see their reasoning and hope they find a good solution. But it is so upsetting for the families isn't it?

Extract from 'Public Health England' on advice to hospitals:
21. Handling dead bodies
"The act of moving a recently deceased patient onto a hospital trolley for transportation to the mortuary might be sufficient to expel small amounts of air from the lungs and thereby present a minor risk

A body bag should be used for transferring the body and those handling the body at this point should use full PPE

The outer surface of the body bag should be decontaminated (see environmental decontamination) immediately before the body bag leaves the anteroom area. This may require at least 2 individuals wearing such protective clothing, in order to manage this process

The trolley carrying the body must be disinfected prior to leaving the anteroom
prior to leaving the anteroom, the staff members must remove their protective clothing

Once in the hospital mortuary, it would be acceptable to open the body bag for family viewing only (mortuary attendant to wear full PPE)

Washing or preparing the body is acceptable if those carrying out the task wear PPE. Mortuary staff and funeral directors must be advised of the biohazard risk.

Embalming is not recommended unless there are appropriate controls to manage aerosol generating procedures

If a post mortem is required safe working techniques (for example manual rather than power tools) should be used and full PPE worn, in the event that power tools are used. High security post mortem suites are available if needed and can be discussed with the PHE incident team

After use, empty body bags should be disposed of as category B waste"

But then, what do they know?

..and then there's the chance the virus may be in the gut of the deceased, and faeces leaked after death may be infectious.

maggie .......

yes, I was wondering why all the photos from China and elsewhere show a) attendants in full gear moving bodies in body bags, and b) piles of body bags (Iran).

As you say ............... what do they know versus what Rollo knows!