General Chat

USA has sent firefighters

Not sure which town or area has welcomed the PM, unless Pat had her tongue in her cheek.

Scot Morrison (PM) actually left one town after only a few minutes due to the very hostile reception he received.

For once I agree with Rollo regarding our Pollies.

When the fires have subsided and they eventually get round to

constructing replacement building, as they must, the replacement should have

have under ground bunkers below or adjacent to the houses.

Just checked and family are safe, at the moment, east of Melbourne. Worrying just the same.

Glad to hear Sue is ok.

Stay safe!

The Canadians have of course sent help
https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/12/22/canadian-firefighters-australia-help-bush-fires/
but against the scale of impending disaster it is nowhere near enough.
Morrison must make a govt to govt (or state) request for substantial help, not only men and women but specialised fire trucks and planes as well. If he won't then he should be removed for those that will.

It is a key function of any government that it keeps its people as safe as possible. One aspect of this is planning for possible disasters eg the French maintain measures to cope with a major earthquake in Marseilles, the Brits a jumbo coming down in central London. The scale of the bush fires this summer was forseen but the planning to deal with them non existent.

The Australians have a post cock up setup called the "Royal Commission". They are the most ineffectual buck passing bu m kissing devices imaginable. Quite how this summer's descent into the inferno will be followed up god knows but another RC is not the way to go.

The islands from Papua New Guinea to Indonesia are also being ravished by fire but that doesn't seem to be worthy of much of a mention.

Somehow I knew it wouldn't be enough for some people!! :-)

I'm pretty sure most if not all are part-time firefighters so they can't all drop their regular jobs to go to another country I'm afraid.

I think you mean many people

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50869565

Cousin in Glen Iris Vic is looking fine for now,,,,,,off spring in Adelaide is sitting tight.,other off spring in Sidney is on look out.

Friends nr Brisbane are fine,


and pleased SueMaid and family are quite safe.


anyone heard from Sal nr Sidney she lives in a tree dense area.

Caroline, back to your post; you are quite right that many personnel for the rural brigades are part-timers. Aussie also travel overseas to assist when necessary.

Normally, bush fires are a State responsibility when they occur, so you wouldn't expect the PM to put his life on hold for a bushfire in Australind, say, but the scale of the current situation is unprecedented and as such requires the PM to at least take an interest.

I suppose that if Canberra was threatened, Parliament would be recalled and the Feds would be all over the place like a rash.

Just as a side act to the main show, there is a fire on the Eyre Highway just on the edge of the Nullarbor .

This link mentions Christmas but the Highway, which is the main trucking link between Perth and the Eastern States, is still closed and is likely to remain so for several days, with food shortages predicted for Perth, and one assumes the rest of WA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-20/christmas-chaos-as-bushfires-affect-nullarbor/11819578

TAZ has fires aaswell….


Its soul destroying seeing on TV whats happening,,,,,even controlled situations don't seem to be having a great effect.

Morrison got booed and shouted at,,,he soon made his exit... :-D

Sharron, I don't know if it's just an Australian 'thing', but when disasters of whatever nature occur the first thing reported by the media is whether or not Australians are involved.

If not the disaster will be briefly reported and perhaps one or two updates given.

If Australians, or even a single Australian person, are involved then the media is all over the story in minute details including the time that the person last went to the toilet, or at least that's what some of the reports seem like :-|

Allan it is the same here,if there is any disaster like a plane crash abroad or hurricane etc the news will always lead with how many British people were involved/injured.

I think Aus' makes rather more news than some places ( as Sharron noted) as so many here in the UK have relatives there.

I certainly admire any of the firefighters from any country part-time or full time as it takes a certain person to do the job. Let's hope you get rain sooner rather than later.

Update:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/prime-minister-scott-morrison-harangued-by-locals-in-bushfire-stricken-town-of-cobargo/news-story/a2b40b36bb6400ad3d71dac053ad0f3a

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/ben-graham/live-coverage/f084c0a8e81fc2c4493ed3f5e5c15ef7

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/live-coverage-mass-evacuations-amid-victoria-bushfire-emergency/live-coverage/0280ddebd4516baa2d49beeee334a8ba

Fire in my good pal's road in Victoria is now under control, thank goodness.

I have not heard from them but I don't expect them to contact me yet, any more than I would take their attention away from the task in hand - perhaps in a day or so when sporadic blazes around them are dealt with. They are not daft and he was brought up a country boy in a forested area and has worked with the CFA so knows the score.

Does anyone think we ought to divert some of our foreign aid when rebuilding starts?

Allan my tongue was firmly in cheek re PM. :-D :-D :-D :-D

Rebuilding is unlikely to be quick or complete.

Way over 70% of people are significantly under insured and a sizable minority not insured at all. If that was not bad enough many of the burnt out properties were very old. Oz building codes have been considerably beefed up over the years such that like-for-like rebuild is very much the exception. Modern building codes are expensive and rarely covered by insurance which generally is given on an as-was basis.

Local authorities may or may not grant planning permission for rebuilding as they have to take into account such factors as fire risk,water supply and native fauna as well as building codes. Insurers have imposed a moratorium on new policies until the current fire season is over. Premiums are likely to rise sharply and may not be affordable.

All of which will bring up one of the elephants in the room of Australian politics - its inability to provide affordable housing.

In the short run the states should bale out those who have lost homes and small businesses but I would not hold my breath.

I can't speak for other States or even other WA local governments, but on at least two occasions the Shire of Waroona in WA has had catastrophic bushfires.

Homeowners were allowed to rebuild without having to pay for planning permission or building permits. The new houses still had to comply with both sets of legislation.

A sizeable proportion of the population is under-insured everywhere as well as people who, for one reason or another, never insure. That is a given.

As we will all know, water supplies and other utilities are not mains-driven in country Oz.

LA planning departments are unlikely to impede rebuilds as long as they conform to fire regs and current safety requirements They may make suggestions, of course, but they will do their best to get families homed again although, inevitably, there will be cases where those who built illicitly will not be allowed to rebuild - but that would be the case in most developed countries. Their staff numbers and sheer volume of checks, even with overtime, are unlikely to mean things move as swiftly as people would like though.

Premiums always rise following disasters such as this. Norwich Union (as it was then) took a hit when we were there despite court cases with lawyers flying from the UK to attend.

It is going to take a considerable time to get to somewhere approaching 'normal' for a vast number of people, businesses and land.

Reforestation will need to be addressed too even though regeneration will begin quicker than one might expect.

As in the UK, it is a long time since the various State Housing Commissions built on the scale that used to happen decades ago. They may make a move to address that situation now,

All of this indicates to me that a diversion of foreign aid to help reconstruction would make sense.

When we lived in Oz some friends lost a rural house to the fires then. When their insurance paid out they decided to sell the land and move back to the city. Made sense to me unless you were a farmer, wine-grower or such, and these people who make their living from the land are facing a type of devastation that will take some recovery, regardless of any joint enterprises they may be part of.

Rural properties with acres of land like those a couple of my pals still live on seem less appealing at times like this.

What may exacerbate the situation is that Australia has now moved to private certification for building control whilst planning control still remains with local councils.

Private certifiers only have to certify that a plan complies with the Building Code of Australia, so can issue permits even if the proposed building does not comply with planning controls